Discussion:
1961 - Cry For a Shadow - Proof there was nothing wrong with Pete Best's drumming
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TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-18 21:14:31 UTC
Permalink
I've said it before



Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.

Danny
Mack A. Damia
2010-10-18 21:32:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT), TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny, I've noticed a trend to re-write history recently - not so much
in here, but all over the web.

The other Beatles wouldn't care about affairs and fathering children,
etc., especially if Best was an excellent drummer. He wasn't, and he
couldn't keep it together. There were many other reasons, too. His
appearance, dress, habitual tardiness and absences and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Best

Best was never told why he was dismissed from The Beatles, as the only
reason Epstein stated to him was, "The lads don't want you in the
group anymore".[45] Epstein subsequently claimed in his autobiography
that Lennon, McCartney and Harrison thought Best "too conventional to
be a Beatle, and though he was friendly with John, he was not liked by
George and Paul."[46] It has been documented (notably in Cynthia
Lennon's book John) that while Lennon, McCartney, and Harrison usually
spent their offstage time together in Hamburg and Liverpool, writing
songs or socialising, Best generally went off alone. This left Best on
the outside, as he was not privy to many of the group's experiences,
references, and in-jokes.[57]

On their first trip to Hamburg, The Beatles realised that the stage
suits they wore could not stand up to the hours of sweating and
jumping about on stage every night, so they all bought leather
jackets, jeans and cowboy boots, which were much tougher. Best
preferred to play in short sleeves, and so did not match the sartorial
style of the group, even though he was later photographed wearing a
leather jacket and jeans.[58] Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, and
Sutcliffe were introduced to drugs in Hamburg. As they had to play for
hours every night, they often took Preludin to keep themselves awake,
which were given to them by German customers or by Astrid Kirchherr,
whose mother bought them.[59] Lennon would often take four or five,
but Best always refused to join in.[60][61]

Kirchherr asked The Beatles if they would mind letting her take
photographs of them in a photo session, which impressed them, as other
groups only had snapshots that were taken by friends. The next morning
Kirchherr took photographs in a municipal park called "der Dom" which
was close to the Reeperbahn, and in the afternoon she took them
all—minus Best who decided not to go—to her mother's house in
Altona.[62][63] Best was described by Dot Rhone—McCartney's girlfriend
at the time, who later visited Hamburg—as being very quiet, and never
taking part in conversations with the group.[64]

Best's popularity with fans was a source of friction, as many female
fans considered Best to be the band's best-looking member.[65] It has
been said that Epstein became exasperated with Best's refusal to adopt
the mop-top-style Beatle haircut as part of their unified look,
although Best later claimed that he was never asked to change his
hairstyle. In a 1995 BBC Radio Merseyside interview, Kirchherr
explained: "My boyfriend, Klaus Voorman, had this hairstyle, and
Stuart [Sutcliffe] liked it very, very much. He was the first one who
really got the nerve to get the Brylcreem out of his hair, and asking
me to cut his hair for him. Pete Best has really curly hair, and it
wouldn't work."[66]

Radio Merseyside presenter, Spencer Leigh, wrote a book chronicling
Best's firing, suggesting that the other members, McCartney in
particular, were jealous.[67] During the Teenagers' Turn showcase in
Manchester, Lennon, McCartney and Harrison walked on stage to
applause, but when Best walked on, the girls screamed.[65] Best was
surrounded at the stage door afterwards by attentive females while the
other members were ignored after signing a few autographs. McCartney's
father, Jim McCartney, was present at the time and admonished Best by
saying: "Why did you have to attract all the attention? Why didn't you
call the other lads back? I think that was very selfish of you".[65]
Mona Best's take on her son's sacking, as told to British television
in 1963 with Pete by her side: "From the point of clash of
personalties, well, probably that may be it because Peter did have a
terrific fan club, you know, compared to the others. [Interviewer:
"Too good looking perhaps, eh?"] I'll leave that for other people to
say but from my point of view we haven't come here to sort of throw
sticks and stones at the boys because there is no really hard feeling.
There was at first, but it's just the way that it was done that has
annoyed us. If it had been done a bit more straightforward it would
have been more to the mark."[68] Martin was shocked that Epstein had
sacked Best: "He seemed to be the most salable commodity as far as
looks went. It was a surprise when I learned that they had dropped
Pete. The drums were important to me for a record, but they didn’t
matter much otherwise. Fans don’t pay particular attention to the
quality of the drumming".[69] Martin used session musician Andy White
on the third session for "Love Me Do" on 11 September, and not Starr,
who was Best's replacement.[70]

Musically Best has been judged to have had a limited rhythmic
vocabulary that was seen as holding the other three band members back
from their collective musical growth. George Martin, as noted above,
deemed Best's drumming to be inadequate for a record. As stated in Bob
Spitz's 2005 biography, "All Pete could do was play 'Fours'..." a
style of drumming that uses kick drum notes on every quarter note to
hold down the beat. Spitz's book also contains engineer Ron Richards'
account of his failed attempts to teach Best somewhat more complicated
beats for different songs.[42] Critic and Beatles historian Richie
Unterberger described Best's drumming at the Decca session as "thinly
textured and rather unimaginative"[37] and said that Best "pushes the
beat a little too fast for comfort".[38] Unterberger thought Ringo
Starr to be "more talented."[71] Beatles critic Alan W. Pollack
compared the Best, Starr, and Andy White versions of "Love Me Do" and
concluded that Best was "an incredibly unsteady and tasteless drummer"
on his version.[72]. For his part, Best has explained in an
interview[73] that variations in tempo were in accordance with how the
song was being performed live at the time.

All the other Beatles went on record about the dismissal of Best. Paul
McCartney said that "it was a strictly professional decision. If he
wasn't up to the mark... then there was no other choice". He also
pronounced Best to be "a bit limited." Lennon called the accusations
of jealousy a "myth", claimed that Best was only recruited for the
band because The Beatles needed a drummer to go to Hamburg, and said,
"We were always going to dump him when we found a decent drummer."
Harrison said that "Pete kept being sick and not showing up for gigs"
and claimed that "I was quite responsible for stirring things up. I
conspired to get Ringo in for good; I talked to Paul and John until
they came round to the idea."[74] For his part, Ringo said that "I
felt I was a much better drummer than he was."[74]

Lennon, McCartney and Harrison all later stated that they regretted
the manner in which they sacked Best. Lennon admitted that "We were
cowards when we sacked him."[75] McCartney has stated that "I do feel
sorry for him, because of what he could have been on to."[75] Harrison
said "We weren't very good at telling Pete he had to go"[76] and
"Historically it may look like we did something nasty to Pete and it
may have been that we could have handled it better."[77] Ringo, on the
other hand, feels he has no apology to make: "I never felt sorry for
Pete Best. I was not involved."[76] The Beatles authority Mark
Lewisohn has concluded that "Despite his alleged shortcomings, it was
still shabby treatment for Pete... the most underhand, unfortunate and
unforgivable chapter in The Beatles' rise to monumental power."[78]
Jamba Junkie
2010-10-18 21:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all....
...if The Beatles were merely a surf band.
Nil
2010-10-18 21:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete
Best. There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all.
Yes there is. It's boring, and is the same rhythm he used in just
about everything. Same "fills" and everything.

One or two competent performances does not a good drummer make.
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Further evidence that Pete Best left the band as a mutual
agreement because of the Mona/Neil/ Roag affair.
Humbug.
who?
2010-10-18 22:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
You have no comprehention of drumming whatsoever. Not a bad thing.
It takes awhile to understand many instruments. One day this will hit
you.
crazytimes
2010-10-18 22:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Looks aren't everything... If Pete had been ugly would he have been
worth keeping in the band based on his drumming alone?... Doesn't
sound like it from the tapes I've heard... Seems that he was good
enough for their live bar band stints and Liverpool dance halls, but
wouldn't cut it for the records and worldwide fame...

It's immaterial anyways... He was just keeping the drumseat warm for
Ringo... Now there's a Starr...
poisoned rose
2010-10-18 22:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
He plays the same tedious sixteenth-notes fill over and over again, and
it really sticks out in a way it shouldn't.
TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-18 23:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
He plays the same tedious sixteenth-notes fill over and over again, and
it really sticks out in a way it shouldn't.
It was 1961..it was fine. I just don't get it why you guys just won't
listen to me and bend my way.

Danny
poisoned rose
2010-10-18 23:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by poisoned rose
He plays the same tedious sixteenth-notes fill over and over again, and
it really sticks out in a way it shouldn't.
It was 1961..it was fine.
Find a 1961 Ringo clip which stinks as badly. A clip where his dull,
formulaic choices make his part stand out as a weakness.
Jamba Junkie
2010-10-19 00:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
It was 1961..it was fine. I just don't get it why you guys just won't
listen to me and bend my way.
Even for 1961, Best's playing was tedious and predictable. IMO, "She
Loves You" would have bombed with Best's banal beat (apologies for the
annoying alliteration). They'd have been a quick blip on the UK stage
instead of world-beaters.

Some might call his playing 'pedestrian'.
;-)
who?
2010-10-19 03:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by poisoned rose
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
He plays the same tedious sixteenth-notes fill over and over again, and
it really sticks out in a way it shouldn't.
It was 1961..it was fine. I just don't get it why you guys just won't
listen to me and bend my way.
Danny
Because your theory is nonsense. Probably any drummer who can
keep a beat in this group who understands basic drumming can
imitate his style in a matter of seconds...show you what he does
and you would quickly change your mind.
Raja, The Great
2010-10-18 23:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-19 00:05:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
JL used to call Beatle fans "Beatards"

Danny
Raja, The Great
2010-10-19 00:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
JL used to call Beatle fans "Beatards"
Damn you John Lennon, I thought it was my original invention!
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Danny
Jales
2010-10-19 00:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
Raja, The Great
2010-10-19 00:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jales
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
Seriously smoking weed are you? Charlie Watts is an excellent jazz
drummer. Have you heard his drumming on Jumping Jack Flash and Get Off
Of my Cloud? Starr is not bad, but he does nothing complex really. I
haven't heard much of Pete Best, but he drummed as he is supposed to
in that song. There was no need to change much in that song. Any kind
of complex/fancy drumming would have ruined the song.
Jales
2010-10-19 15:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raja, The Great
Seriously smoking weed are you? Charlie Watts is an excellent jazz
drummer. Have you heard his drumming on Jumping Jack Flash and Get Off
Of my Cloud? Starr is not bad, but he does nothing complex really. I
haven't heard much of Pete Best, but he drummed as he is supposed to
in that song. There was no need to change much in that song. Any kind
of complex/fancy drumming would have ruined the song.
Chatts never did anything Ringo couldn't do himself. Please tell me
just one Rolling Stones song where Watts plays anything complex beyond
Ringo's skills.... He could be an excellent jazz drummer, but an
average drummer playing rock. I'm not saying he is a bad drummer though
Jales
2010-10-19 15:43:12 UTC
Permalink
On 18 oct, 21:23, "Raja, The Great" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

albums and you will see it clearly
Post by Raja, The Great
Seriously smoking weed are you? Charlie Watts is an excellent jazz
drummer. Have you heard his drumming on Jumping Jack Flash and Get Off
Of my Cloud?
Nothing special on neither song. Show me something by Watts like
Ringo's drumming on Come Together, Long Tall Sally, Rain, I Feel
Fine...
TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-19 00:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jales
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
Yes but in 1962 he was just a drummer.

Danny
Nil
2010-10-19 00:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Yes but in 1962 he was just a drummer.
Yes, an excellent drummer with lots of obvious potential, as compared
with a dull drummer with little hope of improving.
Nil
2010-10-19 00:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jales
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to
Ringo's drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing
whenever the songs requires it.
Yeah, he was great at that. Great musical and dramatic instincts had
he. That's precisely why people refer to his style as "orchestral" and
say how good he was at supporting the song.
moonpie
2010-10-19 14:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jales
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
I dsagree with that. there is no better rock drummer, in my opinion,
no steadier tempo, no more solid of a pocket drummer than Watts.
Jales
2010-10-19 15:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by moonpie
Post by Jales
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
I dsagree with that. there is no better rock drummer, in my opinion,
no steadier tempo, no more solid of a pocket drummer than Watts.
Starr is a much more imaginative drummer than Watts, by far. Give me
some time to check the recordings, and I'll tell you how many Stones
songs begin with the same drum fill.
Just for starters, take a listen to I'm Free, one of the simplest
Stones song, and pay attention at the way Watts losses his tempo when
doing a fill (at 1'33"). Not to mention the songs Jimmy Miller had to
play drums on because Watts just could not do what the others wanted
moonpie
2010-10-19 16:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jales
Post by moonpie
Post by Jales
Post by Raja, The Great
Thats great drumming. As usual the Beatards are smoking too much weed.
Starr was really no better than Pete Best.
Have you listened to Live At The BBC? Take a good listen to Ringo's
drumming, and the way he changes his way of playing whenever the songs
requires it. He is better than Pete Best, and better than Charlie
Watts, if you ask me. Just take a listen to the Beatles and Stones
albums and you will see it clearly
I dsagree with that. there is no better rock drummer, in my opinion,
no steadier tempo, no more solid of a pocket drummer than Watts.
Starr is a much more imaginative drummer than Watts, by far.
thats your opinion, and I disagree.

I like Starr a lot as well.

Watts is my favorite pocket drummer.
ermitano
2010-10-19 00:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Hey Danny, i think you're so wrong.
First of all this is not what they played in the EMI audition.
Second.. this is so boring drumming! always the same pattern in the
snare and the same fills, the only change is between hi hat and ride.
And.. here is Love Me Do played by the beatles with Pete Best in the
EMI audition for George Martin



slower and boring tempo
listen to 1:00 when they get to the bridge, Pete loses the tempo.
listen to 1:58 when they back into the A section, there's 2 different
tempos between the bridge and the verse.

do you really think there was nothing wrong with Pete Best's drumming?
TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-19 00:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ermitano
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Hey Danny, i think you're so wrong.
First of all this is not what they played in the EMI audition.
Second.. this is so boring drumming! always the same pattern in the
snare and the same fills, the only change is between hi hat and ride.
And.. here is Love Me Do played by the beatles with Pete Best in the
EMI audition for George Martin
http://youtu.be/8Swhf6x6I9Y
slower and boring tempo
listen to 1:00 when they get to the bridge, Pete loses the tempo.
listen to 1:58 when they back into the A section, there's 2 different
tempos between the bridge and the verse.
do you really think there was nothing wrong with Pete Best's drumming?
No I think he did quite well changing tempo and stuff...there was no
reason to axe PB other than the Mona/Neil/baby caper.

Danny
ermitano
2010-10-19 00:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by ermitano
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Hey Danny, i think you're so wrong.
First of all this is not what they played in the EMI audition.
Second.. this is so boring drumming! always the same pattern in the
snare and the same fills, the only change is between hi hat and ride.
And.. here is Love Me Do played by the beatles with Pete Best in the
EMI audition for George Martin
http://youtu.be/8Swhf6x6I9Y
slower and boring tempo
listen to 1:00 when they get to the bridge, Pete loses the tempo.
listen to 1:58 when they back into the A section, there's 2 different
tempos between the bridge and the verse.
do you really think there was nothing wrong with Pete Best's drumming?
No I think he did quite well changing tempo and stuff...there was no
reason to axe PB other than the Mona/Neil/baby caper.
Danny- Ocultar texto de la cita -
- Mostrar texto de la cita -
what??
he didn't have to change the tempo, he has to keep the same tempo, at
least, for this song. that's a basic statement for any drummer and
Ringo is a master keeping the tempo, there's no comparison at all.
George Martin wasn't asking for a virtuous drummer, just someone who
could keep the same tempo in a song. Ringo did that and a lot more.
brilton
2010-10-19 02:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Have to strongly disagree here.

Pete Best was a very limited drummer. Like PR pointed out, the only drum
fill he could execute was piddly little sixteenth-note figure for one
bar at the end of every eight, giving the impression that the drums have
dropped out all together at that point.

His drumming style may have suited "Cry For A Shadow", but listen to
"Nobody's Child" - just a flat-sounding snare on the offbeat, and when
he tries something slightly more ambitious around 3:16-3:18: oops, lost
the beat - the BACKBEAT for God's sake.

Listen to his pedestrian drumming on "Aint She Sweet" (the unadorned
version, not the one overdubbed by a session drummer in 1964 because
they thought the drumming sound was too primitive). He tries a fill
around 1:39 and almost loses it again coming back into the very serious
job of keep time for the band - at least just a reliable backbeat.

Compare his drumming on the Decca version of "Till There Was You" to
Ringo's version. Pete awkwardly keeps time with the kick, snare and hi
hat (just), with all the imagination of a drum machine. Then listen to
any of Ringo's live or BBC performances (the studio album uses just
bongos), and hear how he simulates the sound of bongo skins by
alternating between his snare rim and one of his toms.

Listen to Pete's weird and clumsy fills on the Decca version of "Sure To
Fall", where he has one stick on the hi hat and the other on the snare. WTF?

In fact compare any song both drummers did with the Beatles and you
would have to choose Ringo's over Pete's hands down every time. Where
Ringo changes his style for whichever song it suits, Pete just goes
"boom boom boom boom" on the kick drum while the hi hat ticks time in
eighth notes.

And like ermitano states, check out the audition version of "Love Me
Do". They go into the bridge at 1:00, but it's four bars until Pete
realises "oh hang on, I should be playing a different pattern during
this bit" and clumsily corrects himself around 1:07. The tempo
accelerations in the song may have been an arrangement decision that the
group decided upon, but in hindsight it's not a great idea, which is
only exacerbated by Pete's poor execution of it. I can only imagine what
the people in the control booth must have been thinking, but it probably
wasn't good. Pete's drumming in this song alone would have been a red
flag. And his snare sounds awful.

I could go on, but there's enough examples there.

OK. Now listen to Ringo's first recorded performance with the band -
22/8/62, The Cavern, "Some Other Guy". Just the first eight bars will
do. He plays confidently, with energy, swings the hell out of it,
tossing in rolls, fills and accents left right and centre.

I know you say that Ringo was the "luckiest drummer on earth", but I
think it's the other way round - they were l.ucky to get *him*.
cuppajoe2go
2010-10-19 03:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by brilton
I know you say that Ringo was the "luckiest drummer on earth", but I
think it's the other way round - they were l.ucky to get *him*.
Yes!
moonpie
2010-10-19 14:16:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT), TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
just curious.... we have Yokotards here..... dowe have Best-o-tards
too?
The Savage Boohoo
2010-10-19 14:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT), TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
just curious.... we have Yokotards here..... dowe have Best-o-tards
too?
Just one.

Danny wears many hats -- at least here. He seems to wear only one hat
in real life.
RichL
2010-10-19 22:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT), TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
just curious.... we have Yokotards here..... dowe have Best-o-tards
too?
Only one.

b***@aol.com
2010-10-19 15:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
I've said it before
http://youtu.be/l9FacSNRBHk
Here is Cry for a Shadow as recorded in 1961 with drums by Pete Best.
There is nothing wrong with the drumming at all. Further evidence that
Pete Best left the band as a mutual agreement because of the Mona/Neil/
Roag affair.
Danny
Danny, I'm a fan of yours. I look forward to this group every day to
see your continuing quest to cover every Beatles song. My kids love
you ad Jazzy, too. I've complimented you in this group. That said, I
disagree with you about this.

Let me start by giving my own opinion that Best was fired because he
was becoming too popular, that it was becoming Pete Best and the
Beatles. Yes, the group handled his firing shittily, and Best ended up
being deprived of musical immortality.

His drumming was competent, but lacking in diversity and
adventurousness. He rarely strayed from his standard 4/4 beat with
sixteenth note fills. Even a shuffle beat sounded uncomfortable from
him. It is hard to imagine him doing the unique pattern of Baby It's
You (later reused on In My Life), the off-kilter beat of Ticket to
Ride, or later stuff like Rain. Now, Ringo started off as (by today's
standards) a fairly simple drummer, but he grew as time went by. The
most important element was synergy, the dynamic of the four musicians
as a group. Ringo had it; Pete didn't. We have lots of examples of his
drumming (Sheridan, Decca, early EMI, early BBC), and while he was
competent, he was not "good" in my opinion.
rags
2010-10-19 16:04:44 UTC
Permalink
The most important element was synergy, the dynamic of the four
musicians as a group. Ringo had it; Pete didn't. We have lots of
examples of his drumming (Sheridan, Decca, early EMI, early BBC), and
while he was competent, he was not "good" in my opinion.
One thing I recall when listening to the Sheridon sessions (BTW - the "Bear
Family" box set of these is amazing) was that it wasn't Best's drumming
that was weak - it was George's guitar! He grew of course, but he sounded
really lame on many of those tracks ...

-= rags =-
moonpie
2010-10-19 16:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by rags
The most important element was synergy, the dynamic of the four
musicians as a group. Ringo had it; Pete didn't. We have lots of
examples of his drumming (Sheridan, Decca, early EMI, early BBC), and
while he was competent, he was not "good" in my opinion.
One thing I recall when listening to the Sheridon sessions (BTW - the "Bear
Family" box set of these is amazing) was that it wasn't Best's drumming
that was weak - it was George's guitar! He grew of course, but he sounded
really lame on many of those tracks ...
true, he had not really developed yet as a player. the seeds were
there but it would take some time before he blossomed
TheWalrusWasDanny
2010-10-19 17:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Danny, I'm a fan of yours. I look forward to this group every day to
see your continuing quest to cover every Beatles song. My kids love
you ad Jazzy, too. I've complimented you in this group.
Thank you!!
Post by b***@aol.com
His drumming was competent, but lacking in diversity and
adventurousness.
This is all that was required in 1962..a person who could keep the
beat.

Danny
Nil
2010-10-19 17:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
This is all that was required in 1962..a person who could keep the
beat.
If sticking to "all that was required" was enough, The Beatles would
have had a short career playing Besame Mucho in dive bars.
ermitano
2010-10-19 18:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nil
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
This is all that was required in 1962..a person who could keep the
beat.
If sticking to "all that was required" was enough, The Beatles would
have had a short career playing Besame Mucho in dive bars.
But that's why they call Ringo, cos Pete couldn't keep the beat.
who?
2010-10-19 20:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWalrusWasDanny
Post by b***@aol.com
Danny, I'm a fan of yours. I look forward to this group every day to
see your continuing quest to cover every Beatles song. My kids love
you ad Jazzy, too. I've complimented you in this group.
Thank you!!
Post by b***@aol.com
His drumming was competent, but lacking in diversity and
adventurousness.
This is all that was required in 1962..a person who could keep the
beat.
Danny
If you go back to the 50's, the drummers didn't just keep
the beat.
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