Discussion:
About Yes
(too old to reply)
S.F.BZY
2007-10-05 16:53:04 UTC
Permalink
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952

Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.

Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.

So what accounts for today's lack of market profile?

First, they have never been mainstream pop or dance - nor are they a
'singles' band. This is album music to be listened to and enjoyed for
its own sake. And like all good music, it needs more than one hearing
to be fully appreciated. Those who give it time will be richly
rewarded.

Also, they are not natural 'celebrities'. These are professional
musicians first and seldom attract publicity for their own actions.
They are not 'hotel wreckers'.

A brief fall in their fortunes, back in the late 1970s, was due to the
advent of punk, with its emphasis on simple, direct music and blunt
aggression. The music press naturally jumped on the bandwagon and
anything that didn't fit in with the New Wave was peremptorily
'dropped' overnight. The trend then was towards three-chord songs,
with keyboards used less often. At that time Yes were probably the
best-known exponents of more involved and interesting musical forms.
Some of their output certainly approaches classical music in grandeur,
scale, invention and sheer musical ability. Their lyrics are positive,
poetic, full of hope. In contrast, the punk movement embraced street
language, anger and often a sense of despair.

This hurdle overcome, they later rose to the top again, briefly, with
their massive 90125 album and the single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'.
Unfortunately, subsequent line-up changes and managerial difficulties
resulted in a couple of weaker albums and, again, a loss of market
profile.

These days it is difficult to say how popular Yes are, without access
to their global sales figures. There is certainly a massive global
following. At the time of writing, Yes are still together, still
working hard and playing to packed houses around the world; their fans
are loyal. The latest albums The Ladder and Magnification (2001) are
real quality, full of vibrant, fresh material.

A Brief History

The band formed around 1968, with the meeting of Jon Anderson (vocals)
and Chris Squire (bass). The first line-up included Peter Banks
(guitar), Tony Kaye (keyboard) and Bill Bruford (drums).

The first two albums were Yes and Time and a Word. These are
interesting collectors items for the established fan, but are
certainly products of their era and sound a little dated now. Later
albums have a timeless quality.

Two significant changes then occurred: firstly, the arrival of a new
producer, Eddie Offord. He was to remain with the band for several
years and would bring great continuity and invention to their sound.
The second change was the departure of Banks and arrival of Steve Howe
on guitar. Howe was to become the most widely respected rock guitarist
of his time. Unlike other contenders, such as Jimmy Page of Led
Zeppelin, Howe was happy to move outside blues and rock scales into
classical and jazz modes.

The 'Classic' Period

There was a certain amount of record company pressure for the next
album to be successful; it was make-or-break time for the band. The
Yes Album turned out to be a masterpiece - the breakthrough had come.
It contained six tracks, five of which are still played regularly on
tours, and it became almost a one-record greatest hits collection.

Keyboards on the next album, Fragile, were taken over by Rick Wakeman.
Quite apart from his general flamboyance (and golden cape) he brought
even more musicality to the band, with his classical training and rock
experience. He was a pioneer of synthesizer technology, always at the
forefront of developments1. To achieve the sounds he wanted, he would
tour with banks of keyboards that he played simultaneously. He also
brought his own playful sense of humour to the shows.

Jon Anderson has always been a dynamic and strong leader for the group
in terms of musical direction. Lyrically, he began to explore more
mystical and spiritual themes, creating word-pictures with sometimes
profound imagery: a new language that he brought to a huge public. Yes
were extremely popular at this time - their concerts invariably sold
out.

The fifth album, Close to the Edge, was a truly massive hit worldwide.
It established the group as leaders in their art, with an inspired
title track. This was 18 minutes long, a fact in itself challenging
for many who wanted to categorise Yes as a pop/rock group. It featured
four sections, the first a wonderfully crafted rock/jazz intro,
leading into powerful melodies, a beautifully harmonised third 'slow'
movement and a final climactic return to the 'Close to the Edge'
theme, with truly spine-tingling effect.

All this was guaranteed to win many, many fans, but also baffle others
who were more addicted to the three-minute pop song and the epidemic
of soul/disco sweeping the world at that time.

Bill Bruford was replaced by Alan White, a former drummer for John
Lennon, bringing a more rocky, less jazzy approach to the instrument.

Tales from Topographic Oceans was the sixth album, a double, and it
went to No 1 in the album charts despite marketing and release
difficulties. This was probably their most challenging album: four
pieces in excess of 20 minute each, featuring various musical styles.
By now though, the band had their own distinctive sound and this was
unlike anything else on the market. It alienated some critics, who
considered it a step too far outside their strict categories of 'rock
'n' roll', disco, etc. With hindsight, the band were steering their
own course and it was brave and original. Those who gave the album a
fair hearing are generally still passionate about it to this day, but
it needed listening to, just as a Sibelius symphony does: it makes
demands of the listener, but the reward is great.

Album number seven was Relayer. This was what many consider to be
their greatest-ever recording. It beautifully tackles the great themes
of war, peace, love and hate. Again, like much that is profound, it
needs more than one listening to appreciate its genius. Patrick Moraz
replaced Wakeman on keyboards for this one album and brought a fast
playing jazz-fusion feel to the overall rock sound. Yes were riding
high and it was 1976, the year of their great stadium concerts.

The Punk Era

The 'New Wave' hit hard in 1977, but the next album, the superb Going
for the One, flew in the face of the movement and confounded the
critics. It reached No 1 in the album charts. However, Yes had
officially become the 'Old Wave' and the music press began
systematically to write them off; or rather not write about them at
all. The tragedy of this was not that it badly affected the band, but
that future audiences were denied even the opportunity to hear about
Yes, other than by word of mouth.

The band were shaken and probably hurt by the wave of criticism, and
the ninth album, Tormato, sounded musically changed, unsure of itself.
The final mixdown sounded surprisingly hurried and even the album
sleeve betrayed a lack of self-belief within the band, the planned
cover-photo splattered in tomatoes. Be that as it may, the record
still contained some great ideas and was followed by a hugely
successful and innovative tour 'in the round' ie, on a revolving
stage.

Dramatics

At some point during this 1978 tour, Anderson and Wakeman decided to
call it a day. Things were just not gelling within the band.
Controversially, they were replaced by former Buggles members, Trevor
Horn (vocals) and Geoff Downes (keyboards). This appeared strange at
the time, as Buggles had presented a distinctly 'pop' sound - it
seemed that neither Yes fans nor Buggles fans were happy with the new
plans.

However, the next album, Drama, put paid to many of their fears. This
was tight, clever music. The keyboards were solidly played, without a
foreground presence, but certainly held their own. The vocals were
performed satisfactorily and suited the songs. However, it was a
different sound, and the loss of Anderson meant the loss of some
ethereal, enigmatic quality - spirituality, if you will. It was the
difference between a mountain-top experience, and simply a hike over a
mountain. Oddly enough though, these feelings perfectly suited the
material; 'Machine Messiah', for instance, seemed to speak of a
mechanistic, soulless universe. Drama remains a popular album because
the band were true to themselves, and the material has freshness after
the change in personnel.

The subsequent tour was successful but proved difficult for Trevor
Horn, as his voice was severely challenged by the older material.
After the tour, the band split; apparently Yes had finished.

Wakeman undertook various solo projects, Howe formed Asia and Trevor
Horn now settled into his future successful role as producer. Jon
Anderson meanwhile, teamed up with Greek synthesizer wizard, Vangelis,
and enjoyed great success (and hit singles) as Jon and Vangelis.

Squire, White, former keyboard man Tony Kaye, and South African
guitarist Trevor Rabin teamed up to form a proposed new band, Cinema.
However, with much of an album already recorded, Jon Anderson rejoined
and the band was happily reborn as Yes.

Changes

The new album 90125 was a tremendous resurgence for the band, with its
No 1 single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'. The instrumental track 'Cinema'
won the 'Best Rock Instrumental Performance' Grammy Award in 1984.
However, they were quite a different band from earlier days. Rabin's
influence was a strong one and the band would sometimes rely on power
chords rather than the subtle imaginations of Steve Howe. They became
a harder, louder version of Yes, with a very 'produced' sound. Rabin
also sang vocals and this territory became vaguer: who was the singer?
The great thing about Rabin, though, was his energy and drive. It was
he who kept the band in existence and present fans have him to thank
for this.

The 90125 album had won many new fans. Unfortunately the next album,
Big Generator, was less well received. It seemed that Rabin was
completely in charge at this point and his agenda was harder, driving
rock without the beauty or grace of earlier albums. Nevertheless,
there are many who prefer this period of the group's development, and
many who 'discovered' the band at this time. It should also be said
that a 'weak' album by Yes' standards is still a good deal more
ambitious and interesting than most other bands could ever lay claim
to: their sheer musical proficiency almost guarantees this.

Yes again split after the Big Generator promotional tour in mid-1988.
There was a dispute about ownership of the name and the members
settled into two camps.

Union

ABWH (Anderson-Bruford-Wakeman-Howe) released an album and toured,
while Rabin, Squire, Kaye and White continued, rather unproductively,
as Yes. Eventually, some of the arguments calmed down and it was
decided to unite the two factions to record a new album, appropriately
named Union. The subsequent tour was one of their most successful
ever, although the album itself was recorded under conditions of
rancour, disputation and pressure. It is of variable quality, though
there are wonderful moments. It must have been difficult pulling
together two drummers, two keyboard players, two guitarists!

The union was temporary and they looked like fragmenting again. Label
changes and management quarrels seemed to conspire against the music,
but once more Rabin was inspirational in moving the band forward to
the next project: Talk, the fourteenth studio album.

Talk was largely produced by Rabin, but unlike the previous two albums
the effect here was magnificent. The line-up of Anderson, Squire,
Kaye, Rabin and White seemed finally to be pulling in a unified
direction. The title itself indicated a new level of togetherness and
communication. The album's sales were comparatively weak, but it was
still a real achievement.

After the tour, however, Rabin now left to pursue other projects,
including film music. There was now a hiatus, as the members
collectively drew breath. This period was punctuated by various
concerts around the world.

Keys to the Future

The next significant development was a concert at San Luis Obispo,
California in 1996, which resulted in a return to the 'classic' line-
up of Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman and White. Two albums of new and
live material, Keys to Ascension 1 + 2 followed, to rapturous acclaim
from many long-time fans. The new material was brimming with
confidence, ideas and imagination. Yes were back! (Eventually, the new
material from the Keys albums was collected on one studio album,
Keystudio.)

Unbelievably after this, Wakeman drifted away from the band again.
Chris Squire was working with a guitarist/producer, Billy Sherwood,
who was brought into the band, along with a young Russian keyboard
player, Igor Khoroshev.

The next album Open Your Eyes (1997) was again a confident-sounding
record although the overall sound lacked some clarity. It was a guitar-
based album with keyboards taking a backseat. The material on this
album is surprisingly varied; at times simple, at times complicated,
but always permeated powerfully by Anderson/Squire's vision and
optimism.

Yes's commitment to touring remained as constant as ever, with another
series of concerts.

Onward and Upward

The Ladder was next (1999). Khoroshev on keyboards really came into
his own here, wowing Yes fans with his ability and creativity. The
Ladder was in some ways a return to the magic of those 1970s albums,
but without in any sense being a retrograde step. Terrifically
uplifting and positive, with great melodies and arrangements, they
were really sounding like masters of their instruments and of their
own lives. It was as though they had finally begun to understand just
how much they were really loved around the world.

The title track (sub-titled 'Homeworld') was used on the computer game
of that name, and probably brought many new, young fans into the Yes
family. The Ladder could undoubtedly have been marketed to even
greater effect: this Researcher has introduced many young people to
Yes's music by lending them this record.

Their most recent release Magnification is a marvellous album,
released in 2001. Undertaken without any keyboard player (after the
departures of Sherwood and Khoroshev), the band decided to replace the
keyboards by an orchestra. Many fans were rightly suspicious of this
plan, wary of the 'classics play rock' scenario, but they need not
have worried. The orchestra was scored by Larry Groupe, a skilled
orchestrator and a long-time Yes fan. He wrote sympathetically to the
songs and helped produce a record that was a true masterpiece.

Many artists have used the events of 11 September, 2001 as inspiration
for new work. Magnification was different. It was finished just before
those tragedies unfolded. Miraculously, it seems to capture the
feeling of that time perfectly. It points towards healing and renewal
through commitment to love.

The triumphant European and American tours which followed have
featured some of the greatest (and happiest) concert performances in
Yes's career. Rick Wakeman has finally rejoined, and the classic line-
up continues to perform with energy and virtuosity at every show. A
'Full Circle' tour commences in 2003 to include Australia, Japan,
North America and Europe.
really real
2007-10-05 17:26:12 UTC
Permalink
I always figured the reason why Yes gets such limited commercial
exposure is because they are so terrible. I've always assumed that Prog
Rock was some horrible mutation caused by a combination of post
traumatic Sgt Pepper listening and bad drugs. There's something so
pompously unmusical, to my ears, about this kind of music.

However, ever since I saw the Yes box set, I've had to realize that a
lot of people like this kind of music. I suppose the latest Genesis
revival has people excited too.

I've tried to study and understand the phenomenon of Prog and now
realize that a lot of that early psychedelic music, like Jethro Tull and
Procol Harem, have elements of prog. Recently watching Arthur Lee's
performance on the Later DVD, I've been wondering if Love was a bit
proggy. In other words, I am trying to nurture my inner prog, to see if
I can understand this music better.

What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
So what accounts for today's lack of market profile?
First, they have never been mainstream pop or dance - nor are they a
'singles' band. This is album music to be listened to and enjoyed for
its own sake. And like all good music, it needs more than one hearing
to be fully appreciated. Those who give it time will be richly
rewarded.
Also, they are not natural 'celebrities'. These are professional
musicians first and seldom attract publicity for their own actions.
They are not 'hotel wreckers'.
A brief fall in their fortunes, back in the late 1970s, was due to the
advent of punk, with its emphasis on simple, direct music and blunt
aggression. The music press naturally jumped on the bandwagon and
anything that didn't fit in with the New Wave was peremptorily
'dropped' overnight. The trend then was towards three-chord songs,
with keyboards used less often. At that time Yes were probably the
best-known exponents of more involved and interesting musical forms.
Some of their output certainly approaches classical music in grandeur,
scale, invention and sheer musical ability. Their lyrics are positive,
poetic, full of hope. In contrast, the punk movement embraced street
language, anger and often a sense of despair.
This hurdle overcome, they later rose to the top again, briefly, with
their massive 90125 album and the single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'.
Unfortunately, subsequent line-up changes and managerial difficulties
resulted in a couple of weaker albums and, again, a loss of market
profile.
These days it is difficult to say how popular Yes are, without access
to their global sales figures. There is certainly a massive global
following. At the time of writing, Yes are still together, still
working hard and playing to packed houses around the world; their fans
are loyal. The latest albums The Ladder and Magnification (2001) are
real quality, full of vibrant, fresh material.
A Brief History
The band formed around 1968, with the meeting of Jon Anderson (vocals)
and Chris Squire (bass). The first line-up included Peter Banks
(guitar), Tony Kaye (keyboard) and Bill Bruford (drums).
The first two albums were Yes and Time and a Word. These are
interesting collectors items for the established fan, but are
certainly products of their era and sound a little dated now. Later
albums have a timeless quality.
Two significant changes then occurred: firstly, the arrival of a new
producer, Eddie Offord. He was to remain with the band for several
years and would bring great continuity and invention to their sound.
The second change was the departure of Banks and arrival of Steve Howe
on guitar. Howe was to become the most widely respected rock guitarist
of his time. Unlike other contenders, such as Jimmy Page of Led
Zeppelin, Howe was happy to move outside blues and rock scales into
classical and jazz modes.
The 'Classic' Period
There was a certain amount of record company pressure for the next
album to be successful; it was make-or-break time for the band. The
Yes Album turned out to be a masterpiece - the breakthrough had come.
It contained six tracks, five of which are still played regularly on
tours, and it became almost a one-record greatest hits collection.
Keyboards on the next album, Fragile, were taken over by Rick Wakeman.
Quite apart from his general flamboyance (and golden cape) he brought
even more musicality to the band, with his classical training and rock
experience. He was a pioneer of synthesizer technology, always at the
forefront of developments1. To achieve the sounds he wanted, he would
tour with banks of keyboards that he played simultaneously. He also
brought his own playful sense of humour to the shows.
Jon Anderson has always been a dynamic and strong leader for the group
in terms of musical direction. Lyrically, he began to explore more
mystical and spiritual themes, creating word-pictures with sometimes
profound imagery: a new language that he brought to a huge public. Yes
were extremely popular at this time - their concerts invariably sold
out.
The fifth album, Close to the Edge, was a truly massive hit worldwide.
It established the group as leaders in their art, with an inspired
title track. This was 18 minutes long, a fact in itself challenging
for many who wanted to categorise Yes as a pop/rock group. It featured
four sections, the first a wonderfully crafted rock/jazz intro,
leading into powerful melodies, a beautifully harmonised third 'slow'
movement and a final climactic return to the 'Close to the Edge'
theme, with truly spine-tingling effect.
All this was guaranteed to win many, many fans, but also baffle others
who were more addicted to the three-minute pop song and the epidemic
of soul/disco sweeping the world at that time.
Bill Bruford was replaced by Alan White, a former drummer for John
Lennon, bringing a more rocky, less jazzy approach to the instrument.
Tales from Topographic Oceans was the sixth album, a double, and it
went to No 1 in the album charts despite marketing and release
difficulties. This was probably their most challenging album: four
pieces in excess of 20 minute each, featuring various musical styles.
By now though, the band had their own distinctive sound and this was
unlike anything else on the market. It alienated some critics, who
considered it a step too far outside their strict categories of 'rock
'n' roll', disco, etc. With hindsight, the band were steering their
own course and it was brave and original. Those who gave the album a
fair hearing are generally still passionate about it to this day, but
it needed listening to, just as a Sibelius symphony does: it makes
demands of the listener, but the reward is great.
Album number seven was Relayer. This was what many consider to be
their greatest-ever recording. It beautifully tackles the great themes
of war, peace, love and hate. Again, like much that is profound, it
needs more than one listening to appreciate its genius. Patrick Moraz
replaced Wakeman on keyboards for this one album and brought a fast
playing jazz-fusion feel to the overall rock sound. Yes were riding
high and it was 1976, the year of their great stadium concerts.
The Punk Era
The 'New Wave' hit hard in 1977, but the next album, the superb Going
for the One, flew in the face of the movement and confounded the
critics. It reached No 1 in the album charts. However, Yes had
officially become the 'Old Wave' and the music press began
systematically to write them off; or rather not write about them at
all. The tragedy of this was not that it badly affected the band, but
that future audiences were denied even the opportunity to hear about
Yes, other than by word of mouth.
The band were shaken and probably hurt by the wave of criticism, and
the ninth album, Tormato, sounded musically changed, unsure of itself.
The final mixdown sounded surprisingly hurried and even the album
sleeve betrayed a lack of self-belief within the band, the planned
cover-photo splattered in tomatoes. Be that as it may, the record
still contained some great ideas and was followed by a hugely
successful and innovative tour 'in the round' ie, on a revolving
stage.
Dramatics
At some point during this 1978 tour, Anderson and Wakeman decided to
call it a day. Things were just not gelling within the band.
Controversially, they were replaced by former Buggles members, Trevor
Horn (vocals) and Geoff Downes (keyboards). This appeared strange at
the time, as Buggles had presented a distinctly 'pop' sound - it
seemed that neither Yes fans nor Buggles fans were happy with the new
plans.
However, the next album, Drama, put paid to many of their fears. This
was tight, clever music. The keyboards were solidly played, without a
foreground presence, but certainly held their own. The vocals were
performed satisfactorily and suited the songs. However, it was a
different sound, and the loss of Anderson meant the loss of some
ethereal, enigmatic quality - spirituality, if you will. It was the
difference between a mountain-top experience, and simply a hike over a
mountain. Oddly enough though, these feelings perfectly suited the
material; 'Machine Messiah', for instance, seemed to speak of a
mechanistic, soulless universe. Drama remains a popular album because
the band were true to themselves, and the material has freshness after
the change in personnel.
The subsequent tour was successful but proved difficult for Trevor
Horn, as his voice was severely challenged by the older material.
After the tour, the band split; apparently Yes had finished.
Wakeman undertook various solo projects, Howe formed Asia and Trevor
Horn now settled into his future successful role as producer. Jon
Anderson meanwhile, teamed up with Greek synthesizer wizard, Vangelis,
and enjoyed great success (and hit singles) as Jon and Vangelis.
Squire, White, former keyboard man Tony Kaye, and South African
guitarist Trevor Rabin teamed up to form a proposed new band, Cinema.
However, with much of an album already recorded, Jon Anderson rejoined
and the band was happily reborn as Yes.
Changes
The new album 90125 was a tremendous resurgence for the band, with its
No 1 single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'. The instrumental track 'Cinema'
won the 'Best Rock Instrumental Performance' Grammy Award in 1984.
However, they were quite a different band from earlier days. Rabin's
influence was a strong one and the band would sometimes rely on power
chords rather than the subtle imaginations of Steve Howe. They became
a harder, louder version of Yes, with a very 'produced' sound. Rabin
also sang vocals and this territory became vaguer: who was the singer?
The great thing about Rabin, though, was his energy and drive. It was
he who kept the band in existence and present fans have him to thank
for this.
The 90125 album had won many new fans. Unfortunately the next album,
Big Generator, was less well received. It seemed that Rabin was
completely in charge at this point and his agenda was harder, driving
rock without the beauty or grace of earlier albums. Nevertheless,
there are many who prefer this period of the group's development, and
many who 'discovered' the band at this time. It should also be said
that a 'weak' album by Yes' standards is still a good deal more
ambitious and interesting than most other bands could ever lay claim
to: their sheer musical proficiency almost guarantees this.
Yes again split after the Big Generator promotional tour in mid-1988.
There was a dispute about ownership of the name and the members
settled into two camps.
Union
ABWH (Anderson-Bruford-Wakeman-Howe) released an album and toured,
while Rabin, Squire, Kaye and White continued, rather unproductively,
as Yes. Eventually, some of the arguments calmed down and it was
decided to unite the two factions to record a new album, appropriately
named Union. The subsequent tour was one of their most successful
ever, although the album itself was recorded under conditions of
rancour, disputation and pressure. It is of variable quality, though
there are wonderful moments. It must have been difficult pulling
together two drummers, two keyboard players, two guitarists!
The union was temporary and they looked like fragmenting again. Label
changes and management quarrels seemed to conspire against the music,
but once more Rabin was inspirational in moving the band forward to
the next project: Talk, the fourteenth studio album.
Talk was largely produced by Rabin, but unlike the previous two albums
the effect here was magnificent. The line-up of Anderson, Squire,
Kaye, Rabin and White seemed finally to be pulling in a unified
direction. The title itself indicated a new level of togetherness and
communication. The album's sales were comparatively weak, but it was
still a real achievement.
After the tour, however, Rabin now left to pursue other projects,
including film music. There was now a hiatus, as the members
collectively drew breath. This period was punctuated by various
concerts around the world.
Keys to the Future
The next significant development was a concert at San Luis Obispo,
California in 1996, which resulted in a return to the 'classic' line-
up of Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman and White. Two albums of new and
live material, Keys to Ascension 1 + 2 followed, to rapturous acclaim
from many long-time fans. The new material was brimming with
confidence, ideas and imagination. Yes were back! (Eventually, the new
material from the Keys albums was collected on one studio album,
Keystudio.)
Unbelievably after this, Wakeman drifted away from the band again.
Chris Squire was working with a guitarist/producer, Billy Sherwood,
who was brought into the band, along with a young Russian keyboard
player, Igor Khoroshev.
The next album Open Your Eyes (1997) was again a confident-sounding
record although the overall sound lacked some clarity. It was a guitar-
based album with keyboards taking a backseat. The material on this
album is surprisingly varied; at times simple, at times complicated,
but always permeated powerfully by Anderson/Squire's vision and
optimism.
Yes's commitment to touring remained as constant as ever, with another
series of concerts.
Onward and Upward
The Ladder was next (1999). Khoroshev on keyboards really came into
his own here, wowing Yes fans with his ability and creativity. The
Ladder was in some ways a return to the magic of those 1970s albums,
but without in any sense being a retrograde step. Terrifically
uplifting and positive, with great melodies and arrangements, they
were really sounding like masters of their instruments and of their
own lives. It was as though they had finally begun to understand just
how much they were really loved around the world.
The title track (sub-titled 'Homeworld') was used on the computer game
of that name, and probably brought many new, young fans into the Yes
family. The Ladder could undoubtedly have been marketed to even
greater effect: this Researcher has introduced many young people to
Yes's music by lending them this record.
Their most recent release Magnification is a marvellous album,
released in 2001. Undertaken without any keyboard player (after the
departures of Sherwood and Khoroshev), the band decided to replace the
keyboards by an orchestra. Many fans were rightly suspicious of this
plan, wary of the 'classics play rock' scenario, but they need not
have worried. The orchestra was scored by Larry Groupe, a skilled
orchestrator and a long-time Yes fan. He wrote sympathetically to the
songs and helped produce a record that was a true masterpiece.
Many artists have used the events of 11 September, 2001 as inspiration
for new work. Magnification was different. It was finished just before
those tragedies unfolded. Miraculously, it seems to capture the
feeling of that time perfectly. It points towards healing and renewal
through commitment to love.
The triumphant European and American tours which followed have
featured some of the greatest (and happiest) concert performances in
Yes's career. Rick Wakeman has finally rejoined, and the classic line-
up continues to perform with energy and virtuosity at every show. A
'Full Circle' tour commences in 2003 to include Australia, Japan,
North America and Europe.
yes pink van led black rock!
2007-10-05 17:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
I always figured the reason why Yes gets such limited commercial
exposure is because they are so terrible.
Wrong assumption
Post by really real
I've always assumed that Prog
Rock was some horrible mutation caused by a combination of post
traumatic Sgt Pepper listening and bad drugs. There's something so
pompously unmusical, to my ears, about this kind of music.
However, ever since I saw the Yes box set, I've had to realize that a
lot of people like this kind of music.
Of course!
Post by really real
I suppose the latest Genesis
revival has people excited too.
No. It hasnt. Genesis reunion without Gabriel is a farce.
Post by really real
I've tried to study and understand the phenomenon of Prog and now
realize that a lot of that early psychedelic music, like Jethro Tull and
Procol Harem, have elements of prog. Recently watching Arthur Lee's
performance on the Later DVD, I've been wondering if Love was a bit
proggy. In other words, I am trying to nurture my inner prog, to see if
I can understand this music better.
Beatles were quite proggy. So were Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and
Queen.
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on.
Try an album - Fragile! It has several short songs mixed with longer
songs. Or you could try their selt titled debut. But that is a
different sound, not their classic sound.
Both are equally good in my opinion. But their best albums are Close
to the Edge, Relayer and The Yes Album.
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
AC
2007-10-05 18:48:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:26:12 GMT,
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
To be kinda blunt, I'd say there's no point in you delving too deeply into
Progressive Rock. Owner Of A Lonely Heart is probably as far as you want to
go.
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
poisoned rose
2007-10-05 19:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
I always figured the reason why Yes gets such limited commercial
exposure is because they are so terrible. I've always assumed that Prog
Rock was some horrible mutation caused by a combination of post
traumatic Sgt Pepper listening and bad drugs.
Yeah, you're big on uninformed assumptions.
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
You should check out "Five Per Cent for Nothing." It's only 35
seconds. Doesn't seem likely to exhaust your attention span.
Jeff Blanks
2007-10-07 06:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Fair enough, I suppose. But you might want to consider that there are
entire universes of music with other esthetic agendas out there before
calling it "pompously unmusical" when you ask so little of music. Sorry
if that sounds arrogant.

But, anyway: "Wonderous Stories." Less than 4 minutes, still sounds
like a Real Yes Song.
Post by really real
One of my greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song
that treads the line between schlock and genius.
You find it hard to live in earnest, don't you? (As I suppose someone
with a handle like "really real" would.)
Mike Dickson
2007-10-07 09:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
S.F.BZY
2007-10-07 16:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
Thats wrong... Here is a list of short Yes which are melodic and
catchy too.

All are under 4 minutes...
"Looking Around" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:49
"Sweet Dreams" (Anderson, David Foster) - 3:50
"Clap" (Steve Howe) - 3:17
"Long Distance Runaround" (Jon Anderson) - 3:30
"Mood for a Day" (Steve Howe) - 3:00
"Wonderous Stories" (Jon Anderson) - 3:49
"Don't Kill the Whale" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:56
"Madrigal" (Jon Anderson/Rick Wakeman) - 2:25

And these are songs from the pre-Rabin days.... all the from the 60s
and 70s
Mike Dickson
2007-10-07 19:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
Thats wrong... Here is a list of short Yes which are melodic and
catchy too.
All are under 4 minutes...
"Looking Around" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:49
"Sweet Dreams" (Anderson, David Foster) - 3:50
"Clap" (Steve Howe) - 3:17
"Long Distance Runaround" (Jon Anderson) - 3:30
"Mood for a Day" (Steve Howe) - 3:00
"Wonderous Stories" (Jon Anderson) - 3:49
"Don't Kill the Whale" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:56
"Madrigal" (Jon Anderson/Rick Wakeman) - 2:25
'Catchy'? In all candour, can you really see any of these actually
appealing to a top 40 'catchy' audience?
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
S.F.BZY
2007-10-07 20:42:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
Thats wrong... Here is a list of short Yes which are melodic and
catchy too.
All are under 4 minutes...
"Looking Around" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:49
"Sweet Dreams" (Anderson, David Foster) - 3:50
"Clap" (Steve Howe) - 3:17
"Long Distance Runaround" (Jon Anderson) - 3:30
"Mood for a Day" (Steve Howe) - 3:00
"Wonderous Stories" (Jon Anderson) - 3:49
"Don't Kill the Whale" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:56
"Madrigal" (Jon Anderson/Rick Wakeman) - 2:25
'Catchy'? In all candour, can you really see any of these actually
appealing to a top 40 'catchy' audience?
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not all catchy stuff is top 40 oriented. Piper at the Gates of Dawn
has many catchy songs none of them would/could be top 40. And wasnt
Jimi Hendrix Experience a one hit wonder band? They had several catchy
stuff.
Nick Delonas
2007-10-07 22:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
And wasnt
Jimi Hendrix Experience a one hit wonder band?
I guess that may be literally true. Sounds really wrong though.

Just goes to show how much hits actually matter.

--Nick
T***@frontiernet.net
2007-10-08 04:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
Thats wrong... Here is a list of short Yes which are melodic and
catchy too.
All are under 4 minutes...
"Looking Around" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:49
"Sweet Dreams" (Anderson, David Foster) - 3:50
"Clap" (Steve Howe) - 3:17
"Long Distance Runaround" (Jon Anderson) - 3:30
"Mood for a Day" (Steve Howe) - 3:00
"Wonderous Stories" (Jon Anderson) - 3:49
"Don't Kill the Whale" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:56
"Madrigal" (Jon Anderson/Rick Wakeman) - 2:25
'Catchy'? In all candour, can you really see any of these actually
appealing to a top 40 'catchy' audience?
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not all catchy stuff is top 40 oriented. Piper at the Gates of Dawn
has many catchy songs none of them would/could be top 40. And wasnt
Jimi Hendrix Experience a one hit wonder band? They had several catchy
stuff.
Man, you have to stop snorting Ajax. Hendrix was a one-hit wonder?
Man, you need a dose of Roto-Rooter for the brain.

"Insane in the membrane"...

Raja, the Ajax King.
Mackenzie
2007-10-08 04:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by T***@frontiernet.net
Man, you have to stop snorting Ajax. Hendrix was a one-hit wonder?
Man, you need a dose of Roto-Rooter for the brain.
I'm not very knowledgeable about hits, but I think Hendrix's biggest
hit was "Watchtower". I don't know how high that rang up in the
charts, but it brought attention to Hendrix's Experience.
BlackMonk
2007-10-08 07:10:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mackenzie
Post by T***@frontiernet.net
Man, you have to stop snorting Ajax. Hendrix was a one-hit wonder?
Man, you need a dose of Roto-Rooter for the brain.
I'm not very knowledgeable about hits, but I think Hendrix's biggest
hit was "Watchtower". I don't know how high that rang up in the
charts, but it brought attention to Hendrix's Experience.
That was his only top #40 single, but all of his albums made the top #10.
T***@frontiernet.net
2007-10-08 21:50:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mackenzie
Post by T***@frontiernet.net
Man, you have to stop snorting Ajax. Hendrix was a one-hit wonder?
Man, you need a dose of Roto-Rooter for the brain.
I'm not very knowledgeable about hits, but I think Hendrix's biggest
hit was "Watchtower". I don't know how high that rang up in the
charts, but it brought attention to Hendrix's Experience.
There were plenty of songs played on the radio where I live. Purple
Haze, Hey Joe, All Along... a few more off the 1st album alone.
Halmyre
2007-10-08 07:21:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by really real
What would be the most accessible Yes song for me to start on. But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody.
Well that's Yes pretty well fucked.
Thats wrong... Here is a list of short Yes which are melodic and
catchy too.
All are under 4 minutes...
"Looking Around" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:49
"Sweet Dreams" (Anderson, David Foster) - 3:50
"Clap" (Steve Howe) - 3:17
"Long Distance Runaround" (Jon Anderson) - 3:30
"Mood for a Day" (Steve Howe) - 3:00
"Wonderous Stories" (Jon Anderson) - 3:49
"Don't Kill the Whale" (Jon Anderson/Chris Squire) - 3:56
"Madrigal" (Jon Anderson/Rick Wakeman) - 2:25
'Catchy'? In all candour, can you really see any of these actually
appealing to a top 40 'catchy' audience?
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not all catchy stuff is top 40 oriented. Piper at the Gates of Dawn
has many catchy songs none of them would/could be top 40. And wasnt
Jimi Hendrix Experience a one hit wonder band?
Wrong - Hendrix had four top 10 singles, including a (posthumous) number
one.
--
Halmyre

What in Swansea are going on here?!
Nick Delonas
2007-10-07 21:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
'Catchy'? In all candour, can you really see any of these actually
appealing to a top 40 'catchy' audience?
Long Distance Run Around maybe.

Of course, if I could recognize a hit, I wouldn't still be working a
crummy day job.

--Nick
Sixties Gen
2007-10-11 01:12:53 UTC
Permalink
I saw Yes in the Fall of 1971. "The Yes Album" had just come out, and
my head was filled with the songs, "I've Seen All Good People",
"Perpetual Change", and "Yours Is No Disgrace".

They performed at the Palace Theater in Waterbury CT (which btw, CT
friends tell me has been completely refurbished and still packs 'em
in), and sounded incredible.

Oddly enough, Yes wasn't the main attraction. They opened for the J.
Geils Band.

After that concert, I bought their earlier "Yes " album...mostly
because they covered "Every Little Thing".

Never bought another album by them.

I think they were a very good band, but of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
stature?...I'm not sure.

I leave that up to the "experts"...like Jann Wenner. ;-)
Tony Elka
2007-10-11 01:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sixties Gen
I saw Yes in the Fall of 1971. "The Yes Album" had just come out, and
my head was filled with the songs, "I've Seen All Good People",
"Perpetual Change", and "Yours Is No Disgrace".
They performed at the Palace Theater in Waterbury CT (which btw, CT
friends tell me has been completely refurbished and still packs 'em
in), and sounded incredible.
Oddly enough, Yes wasn't the main attraction. They opened for the J.
Geils Band.
After that concert, I bought their earlier "Yes " album...mostly
because they covered "Every Little Thing".
Never bought another album by them.
That's a shame. You liked "The Yes Album" but you never delved into the
subsequent "Fragile" or "Close to the Edge" albums, their best work.

I'm not surprised Yes was opening for J. Geils in 1971 in Connecticut.
That band was popular in the Northeast for a very long time.

Tony
Sixties Gen
2007-10-11 03:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Elka
Post by Sixties Gen
I saw Yes in the Fall of 1971. "The Yes Album" had just come out, and
my head was filled with the songs, "I've Seen All Good People",
"Perpetual Change", and "Yours Is No Disgrace".
They performed at the Palace Theater in Waterbury CT (which btw, CT
friends tell me has been completely refurbished and still packs 'em
in), and sounded incredible.
Oddly enough, Yes wasn't the main attraction. They opened for the J.
Geils Band.
After that concert, I bought their earlier "Yes " album...mostly
because they covered "Every Little Thing".
Never bought another album by them.
That's a shame. You liked "The Yes Album" but you never delved into the
subsequent "Fragile" or "Close to the Edge" albums, their best work.
I'm not surprised Yes was opening for J. Geils in 1971 in Connecticut.
That band was popular in the Northeast for a very long time.
Tony
Back in the day, I also heard a lot of music from friends' albums, so
I was familiar with "Fragile", but personally, I never bought another
"Yes" album.
Jeff Blanks
2007-11-11 02:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sixties Gen
Back in the day, I also heard a lot of music from friends' albums, so
I was familiar with "Fragile", but personally, I never bought another
"Yes" album.
Ah--one of *those* people. ;-P Maybe there's a position available for
you at the *Village Voice*...

poisoned rose
2007-10-11 01:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sixties Gen
I leave that up to the "experts"...like Jann Wenner. ;-)
You ALMOST got through that post without being dismissive and
condescending, but not quite.
BlackMonk
2007-10-13 00:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Sixties Gen
I leave that up to the "experts"...like Jann Wenner. ;-)
You ALMOST got through that post without being dismissive and
condescending, but not quite.
Dismissive and condescending about Jann Wenner isn't necessarily a bad
thing.

How many musicians are on the nominating committee?
marcus
2007-10-13 03:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by BlackMonk
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Sixties Gen
I leave that up to the "experts"...like Jann Wenner. ;-)
You ALMOST got through that post without being dismissive and
condescending, but not quite.
Dismissive and condescending about Jann Wenner isn't necessarily a bad
thing.
How many musicians are on the nominating committee?
Well, of course, that's what I was going for with the Wenner
remark...the very well-known controversy over his heavy-handedness
about who gets into the HOF.

However, when one particularly aggressive poster tries to find
something negative to say, he will stop at nothing...no matter how
much of a stretch his claim may be..
poisoned rose
2007-10-13 07:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
Post by BlackMonk
Post by poisoned rose
You ALMOST got through that post without being dismissive and
condescending, but not quite.
Dismissive and condescending about Jann Wenner isn't necessarily a bad
thing.
How many musicians are on the nominating committee?
Well, of course, that's what I was going for with the Wenner
remark...the very well-known controversy over his heavy-handedness
about who gets into the HOF.
However, when one particularly aggressive poster tries to find
something negative to say, he will stop at nothing...no matter how
much of a stretch his claim may be..
Posturing, posturing, posturing. Eternally posturing.

You smirked about Wenner being a quote/unquote "expert." End of
story.
Steven Sullivan
2007-10-11 01:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sixties Gen
I saw Yes in the Fall of 1971. "The Yes Album" had just come out, and
my head was filled with the songs, "I've Seen All Good People",
"Perpetual Change", and "Yours Is No Disgrace".
They performed at the Palace Theater in Waterbury CT (which btw, CT
friends tell me has been completely refurbished and still packs 'em
in), and sounded incredible.
Oddly enough, Yes wasn't the main attraction. They opened for the J.
Geils Band.
After that concert, I bought their earlier "Yes " album...mostly
because they covered "Every Little Thing".
Never bought another album by them.
Too bad. The next few *after* 'Yes Album' were even better.



___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason
Ferd Farkel
2007-10-07 18:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
You're denying yourself some of the great pleasures to be
found in prog, such as the devastating cover of Gustav Holst's
"Mars, Bringer of War" by the kings of prog rock themselves,
King Crimson.
yes pink van led black rock!
2007-10-07 19:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
You're denying yourself some of the great pleasures to be
found in prog, such as the devastating cover of Gustav Holst's
"Mars, Bringer of War" by the kings of prog rock themselves,
King Crimson.
The titles of Kings of Prog belongs to Yes! King Crimson were pretty
good but wildly inconsistent. Between debut and Lark's Tongue in
Aspic, they had three mediocre albums.
Mike Dickson
2007-10-07 19:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
You're denying yourself some of the great pleasures to be
found in prog, such as the devastating cover of Gustav Holst's
"Mars, Bringer of War" by the kings of prog rock themselves,
King Crimson.
A 'cover' that usually limits itself to a whole seven notes from the
original.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
Steven Sullivan
2007-10-07 20:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
You're denying yourself some of the great pleasures to be
found in prog, such as the devastating cover of Gustav Holst's
"Mars, Bringer of War" by the kings of prog rock themselves,
King Crimson.
A 'cover' that usually limits itself to a whole seven notes from the
original.
But that's all the original has.



___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason
Ferd Farkel
2007-10-08 02:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by really real
But be
warned, I like short snappy music with a catchy melody. One of my
greatest pleasures is the art of the popular song that treads the line
between schlock and genius.
You're denying yourself some of the great pleasures to be
found in prog, such as the devastating cover of Gustav Holst's
"Mars, Bringer of War" by the kings of prog rock themselves,
King Crimson.
A 'cover' that usually limits itself to a whole seven notes from the
original.
That's always been the most infuriating thing about learning new
rock songs. I get bored with them before perfecting them because
with few exceptions, they're so damned simple and repetitive.

BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
Mike Dickson
2007-10-08 19:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferd Farkel
BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
WOW! Still got the dirt from *that grave*.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
O'Leary III
2007-10-08 19:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
WOW! Still got the dirt from *that grave*.
Bring back ET! : )
Ferd Farkel
2007-10-09 02:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
WOW! Still got the dirt from *that grave*.
You should try to grow something in it. Something
dead.
Mike Dickson
2007-10-09 20:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
WOW! Still got the dirt from *that grave*.
You should try to grow something in it. Something
dead.
It will change sex. Then die.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
Ferd Farkel
2007-10-09 20:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by Mike Dickson
Post by Ferd Farkel
BTW, Rev Chuck from the old afjc days says hello.
WOW! Still got the dirt from *that grave*.
You should try to grow something in it. Something
dead.
It will change sex. Then die.
You must fertilize it. With dog shit.
MikeLawyr2
2007-10-09 20:53:24 UTC
Permalink
1. I saw Grand Funk Railroad in 1970 or 1971 at the Yale Bowl in New
Haven, CT (you expect me to remember the year???). The warmup band
was Yes.

2. The Zombies can be given much credit for spawning jazz rock, prog
rock, etc. The Zombies ought to be in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
Nil
2007-10-09 21:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeLawyr2
1. I saw Grand Funk Railroad in 1970 or 1971 at the Yale Bowl in
New Haven, CT (you expect me to remember the year???). The warmup
band was Yes.
It was that year, or maybe '72 that I saw Black Sabbath - the opener
was Yes. Roundabout was the big radio hit at the time.
RichL
2007-10-10 00:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeLawyr2
2. The Zombies can be given much credit for spawning jazz rock, prog
rock, etc. The Zombies ought to be in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
Yes they should!!
S.F.BZY
2007-10-10 01:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by MikeLawyr2
2. The Zombies can be given much credit for spawning jazz rock, prog
rock, etc. The Zombies ought to be in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
Yes they should!!
I second that... considering some of the junk bands which are already
in RnR HOF
marcus
2007-10-13 03:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeLawyr2
1. I saw Grand Funk Railroad in 1970 or 1971 at the Yale Bowl in New
Haven, CT (you expect me to remember the year???). The warmup band
was Yes.
Maybe, we've covered this ground before, but did you see a lot of
shows at the Yale Bowl?

I saw a few in the early-to-mid 70s. The ones I can remember are
Clapton, Seals & Croft, and a multi-group 50s Rock Revival show
featuring Chuck Berry at the end of the show.
Me
2007-10-05 18:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Frank R. Andersen
2007-10-05 18:36:27 UTC
Permalink
Yes sucked. Their eunuch choir boy was an awful singer. Weren't you
supposed to have disappeared RajaYesZepBlackMentrualFlo?
Why don't you post your garbage on a Yes board and stop annoying
Beatle fans?
That does not make sense. He's not annoying me, I'm a Beatles fan AND a Yes
fan (and fan of other prog groups as well)!

Frank
nilrecurring
2007-10-05 22:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Yes sucked. Their eunuch choir boy was an awful singer.
Yes, they suck so bad that 40 years later they are still performing.
The Who? Dead, gone, Beatles? Dead, gone. Tennis? Still
kicking unfortunately.
Barrabas
2007-10-06 01:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Yes sucked. Their eunuch choir boy was an awful singer. Weren't you
supposed to have disappeared RajaYesZepBlackMentrualFlo?
Why don't you post your garbage on a Yes board and stop annoying
Beatle fans?
I've got to agree. Yes don't belong with the Beatles at all.
O'Leary III
2007-10-05 20:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet.
More here:

http://www.yesnetwork.com
Relayer
2007-10-05 20:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
So what accounts for today's lack of market profile?
First, they have never been mainstream pop or dance - nor are they a
'singles' band. This is album music to be listened to and enjoyed for
its own sake. And like all good music, it needs more than one hearing
to be fully appreciated. Those who give it time will be richly
rewarded.
Also, they are not natural 'celebrities'. These are professional
musicians first and seldom attract publicity for their own actions.
They are not 'hotel wreckers'.
A brief fall in their fortunes, back in the late 1970s, was due to the
advent of punk, with its emphasis on simple, direct music and blunt
aggression. The music press naturally jumped on the bandwagon and
anything that didn't fit in with the New Wave was peremptorily
'dropped' overnight. The trend then was towards three-chord songs,
with keyboards used less often. At that time Yes were probably the
best-known exponents of more involved and interesting musical forms.
Some of their output certainly approaches classical music in grandeur,
scale, invention and sheer musical ability. Their lyrics are positive,
poetic, full of hope. In contrast, the punk movement embraced street
language, anger and often a sense of despair.
This hurdle overcome, they later rose to the top again, briefly, with
their massive 90125 album and the single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'.
Unfortunately, subsequent line-up changes and managerial difficulties
resulted in a couple of weaker albums and, again, a loss of market
profile.
These days it is difficult to say how popular Yes are, without access
to their global sales figures. There is certainly a massive global
following. At the time of writing, Yes are still together, still
working hard and playing to packed houses around the world; their fans
are loyal. The latest albums The Ladder and Magnification (2001) are
real quality, full of vibrant, fresh material.
A Brief History
The band formed around 1968, with the meeting of Jon Anderson (vocals)
and Chris Squire (bass). The first line-up included Peter Banks
(guitar), Tony Kaye (keyboard) and Bill Bruford (drums).
The first two albums were Yes and Time and a Word. These are
interesting collectors items for the established fan, but are
certainly products of their era and sound a little dated now. Later
albums have a timeless quality.
Two significant changes then occurred: firstly, the arrival of a new
producer, Eddie Offord. He was to remain with the band for several
years and would bring great continuity and invention to their sound.
The second change was the departure of Banks and arrival of Steve Howe
on guitar. Howe was to become the most widely respected rock guitarist
of his time. Unlike other contenders, such as Jimmy Page of Led
Zeppelin, Howe was happy to move outside blues and rock scales into
classical and jazz modes.
The 'Classic' Period
There was a certain amount of record company pressure for the next
album to be successful; it was make-or-break time for the band. The
Yes Album turned out to be a masterpiece - the breakthrough had come.
It contained six tracks, five of which are still played regularly on
tours, and it became almost a one-record greatest hits collection.
Keyboards on the next album, Fragile, were taken over by Rick Wakeman.
Quite apart from his general flamboyance (and golden cape) he brought
even more musicality to the band, with his classical training and rock
experience. He was a pioneer of synthesizer technology, always at the
forefront of developments1. To achieve the sounds he wanted, he would
tour with banks of keyboards that he played simultaneously. He also
brought his own playful sense of humour to the shows.
Jon Anderson has always been a dynamic and strong leader for the group
in terms of musical direction. Lyrically, he began to explore more
mystical and spiritual themes, creating word-pictures with sometimes
profound imagery: a new language that he brought to a huge public. Yes
were extremely popular at this time - their concerts invariably sold
out.
The fifth album, Close to the Edge, was a truly massive hit worldwide.
It established the group as leaders in their art, with an inspired
title track. This was 18 minutes long, a fact in itself challenging
for many who wanted to categorise Yes as a pop/rock group. It featured
four sections, the first a wonderfully crafted rock/jazz intro,
leading into powerful melodies, a beautifully harmonised third 'slow'
movement and a final climactic return to the 'Close to the Edge'
theme, with truly spine-tingling effect.
All this was guaranteed to win many, many fans, but also baffle others
who were more addicted to the three-minute pop song and the epidemic
of soul/disco sweeping the world at that time.
Bill Bruford was replaced by Alan White, a former drummer for John
Lennon, bringing a more rocky, less jazzy approach to the instrument.
Tales from Topographic Oceans was the sixth album, a double, and it
went to No 1 in the album charts despite marketing and release
difficulties. This was probably their most challenging album: four
pieces in excess of 20 minute each, featuring various musical styles.
By now though, the band had their own distinctive sound and this was
unlike anything else on the market. It alienated some critics, who
considered it a step too far outside their strict categories of 'rock
'n' roll', disco, etc. With hindsight, the band were steering their
own course and it was brave and original. Those who gave the album a
fair hearing are generally still passionate about it to this day, but
it needed listening to, just as a Sibelius symphony does: it makes
demands of the listener, but the reward is great.
Album number seven was Relayer. This was what many consider to be
their greatest-ever recording. It beautifully tackles the great themes
of war, peace, love and hate. Again, like much that is profound, it
needs more than one listening to appreciate its genius. Patrick Moraz
replaced Wakeman on keyboards for this one album and brought a fast
playing jazz-fusion feel to the overall rock sound. Yes were riding
high and it was 1976, the year of their great stadium concerts.
The Punk Era
The 'New Wave' hit hard in 1977, but the next album, the superb Going
for the One, flew in the face of the movement and confounded the
critics. It reached No 1 in the album charts. However, Yes had
officially become the 'Old Wave' and the music press began
systematically to write them off; or rather not write about them at
all. The tragedy of this was not that it badly affected the band, but
that future audiences were denied even the opportunity to hear about
Yes, other than by word of mouth.
The band were shaken and probably hurt by the wave of criticism, and
the ninth album, Tormato, sounded musically changed, unsure of itself.
The final mixdown sounded surprisingly hurried and even the album
sleeve betrayed a lack of self-belief within the band, the planned
cover-photo splattered in tomatoes. Be that as it may, the record
still contained some great ideas and was followed by a hugely
successful and innovative tour 'in the round' ie, on a revolving
stage.
Dramatics
At some point during this 1978 tour, Anderson and Wakeman decided to
call it a day. Things were just not gelling within the band.
Controversially, they were replaced by former Buggles members, Trevor
Horn (vocals) and Geoff Downes (keyboards). This appeared strange at
the time, as Buggles had presented a distinctly 'pop' sound - it
seemed that neither Yes fans nor Buggles fans were happy with the new
plans.
However, the next album, Drama, put paid to many of their fears. This
was tight, clever music. The keyboards were solidly played, without a
foreground presence, but certainly held their own. The vocals were
performed satisfactorily and suited the songs. However, it was a
different sound, and the loss of Anderson meant the loss of some
ethereal, enigmatic quality - spirituality, if you will. It was the
difference between a mountain-top experience, and simply a hike over a
mountain. Oddly enough though, these feelings perfectly suited the
material; 'Machine Messiah', for instance, seemed to speak of a
mechanistic, soulless universe. Drama remains a popular album because
the band were true to themselves, and the material has freshness after
the change in personnel.
The subsequent tour was successful but proved difficult for Trevor
Horn, as his voice was severely challenged by the older material.
After the tour, the band split; apparently Yes had finished.
Wakeman undertook various solo projects, Howe formed Asia and Trevor
Horn now settled into his future successful role as producer. Jon
Anderson meanwhile, teamed up with Greek synthesizer wizard, Vangelis,
and enjoyed great success (and hit singles) as Jon and Vangelis.
Squire, White, former keyboard man Tony Kaye, and South African
guitarist Trevor Rabin teamed up to form a proposed new band, Cinema.
However, with much of an album already recorded, Jon ...
read more
Raja, quit cross posting your shit to a tennis group (in addition to
posting at all). No one wants to hear the opinion of guys who run
around in samll tight shorts swinging little laced paddles.
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 01:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?

Joe Ramirez
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 14:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 15:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."

Joe Ramirez
lemmiwinks
2007-10-06 15:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 16:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so.
Because you know him so well, right? LOL.
Post by lemmiwinks
Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
You can't be bored or frustrated with something you don't seek out and
don't care about. I really hope that the self-esteem of Yes fans does
not depend on what today's teenagers think about the band (obviously,
they don't think about it at all), but after reading Raja's posts and
yours, I'm not so sure.

Joe Ramirez
AC
2007-10-06 19:46:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 20:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
AC
2007-10-07 00:25:43 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
Oh fuck off. Young is an incredible blues guitarist who can do some pretty
incredible things on the guitar. Let's not forget his brother, one of the
best rhythm guitars in the business.

YOu're such a goddamn twit about these things. The fact that you whack off
to Yes somehow means that your opinion means shit out there.
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
S.F.BZY
2007-10-07 00:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even
make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are
found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
Oh fuck off. Young is an incredible blues guitarist who can do some pretty
incredible things on the guitar. Let's not forget his brother, one of the
best rhythm guitars in the business.
YOu're such a goddamn twit about these things. The fact that you whack off
to Yes somehow means that your opinion means shit out there.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
listen you bastard. AC/DC is one of my favorite bands. Angus Young is
one of my favorite guitarists. But he is technically not as good as
Page or Howe or Hendrix. He is nor versatile or creative as Page and
Howe.
S.F.BZY
2007-10-07 00:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even
make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are
found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
Oh fuck off. Young is an incredible blues guitarist who can do some pretty
incredible things on the guitar. Let's not forget his brother, one of the
best rhythm guitars in the business.
YOu're such a goddamn twit about these things. The fact that you whack off
to Yes somehow means that your opinion means shit out there.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
listen you bastard. AC/DC is one of my favorite bands. Angus Young is
one of my favorite guitarists. But he is technically not as good as
Page or Howe or Hendrix. He is nor versatile or creative as Page and
Howe.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Speaking of AC/DC has anyone seen this. This is their early early
songs WITHOUT Bon Scott. The singer is Dave Evans

AC
2007-10-10 17:37:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 00:44:30 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even
make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are
found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
Oh fuck off. Young is an incredible blues guitarist who can do some pretty
incredible things on the guitar. Let's not forget his brother, one of the
best rhythm guitars in the business.
YOu're such a goddamn twit about these things. The fact that you whack off
to Yes somehow means that your opinion means shit out there.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
listen you bastard. AC/DC is one of my favorite bands. Angus Young is
one of my favorite guitarists. But he is technically not as good as
Page or Howe or Hendrix. He is nor versatile or creative as Page and
Howe.
What does technical have to do with anything. Frankly I think Page is a
sloppy guitarist compared to Angus. Howe never really blew me away one way
or the other, and dropping Hendrix into a conversation is a show-stopper.
There was "before Hendrix" and "after Hendrix".
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
S.F.BZY
2007-10-11 02:21:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 00:44:30 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:57:57 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by AC
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:51:48 -0400,
Post by lemmiwinks
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even
make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are
found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez
Your nephew learning to play guitar riffs is the problem. Led Zep , AC/DC
is easy guitar. He dosent have a prayer of figuring out Steve Howe riffs and
lacks the physical ability to do so. Hence his bordom/frustration with Yes.
If the guy's nephew could learn to play like Angus Young or Jimmy Page, the
fact that he has never heard of Yes would not hurt his music career in the
least.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
Page and Howe are in the same level but Young (as much as I like him)
is like 2 leagues below them. So your statement is wrong.
Oh fuck off. Young is an incredible blues guitarist who can do some pretty
incredible things on the guitar. Let's not forget his brother, one of the
best rhythm guitars in the business.
YOu're such a goddamn twit about these things. The fact that you whack off
to Yes somehow means that your opinion means shit out there.
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
listen you bastard. AC/DC is one of my favorite bands. Angus Young is
one of my favorite guitarists. But he is technically not as good as
Page or Howe or Hendrix. He is nor versatile or creative as Page and
Howe.
What does technical have to do with anything. Frankly I think Page is a
sloppy guitarist compared to Angus.
He was much more creative and versatile on the studio albums. He took
too much coke when he performed live. That doesnt make him a worse
guitarist than he was.
Post by AC
Howe never really blew me away one way
or the other,
Lets say you never really heard Yes.
Post by AC
and dropping Hendrix into a conversation is a show-stopper.
There was "before Hendrix" and "after Hendrix".
I rate Hendrix below 1) Page and 2) Howe. He is a solid 3rd IMO. Angus
Young is not even top 10, but he could be top 25.
Post by AC
--
Aaron Clausen
- Show quoted text -
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 16:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Ask him to download Close to the Edge and Relayer. I bet he will get
hooked on soon after a few listens. He might have not heard of prog
rock much. Many teens start with classic rock and move on to prog
rock. If he likes the 70s, there is hope for him.

I do agree Yes popularity went down in the 90s, but with the Internets
(as Bush would put it), prog rock and Yes' popularity have gone up
among the new listeners.
Post by Joe Ramirez
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 17:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Ask him to download Close to the Edge and Relayer. I bet he will get
hooked on soon after a few listens. He might have not heard of prog
rock much. Many teens start with classic rock and move on to prog
rock. If he likes the 70s, there is hope for him.
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes.
Your "discovery" hypothesis is more plausible than your parental/
avuncular influence hypothesis. Kids want to find their music on their
own, whatever era it is from. Whatever influence I have has been
exerted -- mostly ineffectively -- to promote music I personally find
important. However, I think I did once play some Yes for my son (I
rarely listen to it, but he happened to be in the car on that
occasion) -- he hated it. But if it's any consolation, he also
dislikes a lot of the rock I like the most, and he hates classical
too, despite my best efforts.

Joe Ramirez
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 21:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Ask him to download Close to the Edge and Relayer. I bet he will get
hooked on soon after a few listens. He might have not heard of prog
rock much. Many teens start with classic rock and move on to prog
rock. If he likes the 70s, there is hope for him.
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes.
Your "discovery" hypothesis is more plausible than your parental/
avuncular influence hypothesis. Kids want to find their music on their
own, whatever era it is from. Whatever influence I have has been
exerted -- mostly ineffectively -- to promote music I personally find
important.
Or may be he knows you are an idiot and doesnt trust judgement
Post by Joe Ramirez
However, I think I did once play some Yes for my son (I
rarely listen to it, but he happened to be in the car on that
occasion) -- he hated it.
Why would you play Yes for your son, if you never like them in the
first place or even consider their music of any importance/quality?
LIAR LIAR! Please tell us what bands you rate very high except
Radichead. Since you seem to troll every music thread of mine, I would
like to know
Post by Joe Ramirez
But if it's any consolation, he also
dislikes a lot of the rock I like the most, and he hates classical
too, despite my best efforts.
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 21:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Ask him to download Close to the Edge and Relayer. I bet he will get
hooked on soon after a few listens. He might have not heard of prog
rock much. Many teens start with classic rock and move on to prog
rock. If he likes the 70s, there is hope for him.
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes.
Your "discovery" hypothesis is more plausible than your parental/
avuncular influence hypothesis. Kids want to find their music on their
own, whatever era it is from. Whatever influence I have has been
exerted -- mostly ineffectively -- to promote music I personally find
important.
Or may be he knows you are an idiot and doesnt trust judgement
Post by Joe Ramirez
However, I think I did once play some Yes for my son (I
rarely listen to it, but he happened to be in the car on that
occasion) -- he hated it.
Why would you play Yes for your son, if you never like them in the
first place or even consider their music of any importance/quality?
LIAR LIAR! Please tell us what bands you rate very high except
Radichead. Since you seem to troll every music thread of mine, I would
like to know
Please don't apply the term "troll" to anyone else -- the irony is too
immense. If you kept your top-ten lists and reposted fanzine articles
out of rec.sport.tennis, I guarantee that no one here would track them
down elsewhere. But if you do post them here, don't complain when
people object or rebut.

The best music thread in RST in the last year was one in which you did
not participate (maybe there's a connection?). Forgive us, but it
wasn't limited to "bands":
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/thread/ec4b5d9205a4b142?tvc=2&q=desert+island

Also try this if you want to upgrade your listening:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/thread/f04534e3e8034afa/67568685e4163782?lnk=gst&q=%22joe+ramirez%22+prokofiev&rnum=1#67568685e4163782

Joe Ramirez
S.F.BZY
2007-10-07 00:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Ask him to download Close to the Edge and Relayer. I bet he will get
hooked on soon after a few listens. He might have not heard of prog
rock much. Many teens start with classic rock and move on to prog
rock. If he likes the 70s, there is hope for him.
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes.
Your "discovery" hypothesis is more plausible than your parental/
avuncular influence hypothesis. Kids want to find their music on their
own, whatever era it is from. Whatever influence I have has been
exerted -- mostly ineffectively -- to promote music I personally find
important.
Or may be he knows you are an idiot and doesnt trust judgement
Post by Joe Ramirez
However, I think I did once play some Yes for my son (I
rarely listen to it, but he happened to be in the car on that
occasion) -- he hated it.
Why would you play Yes for your son, if you never like them in the
first place or even consider their music of any importance/quality?
LIAR LIAR! Please tell us what bands you rate very high except
Radichead. Since you seem to troll every music thread of mine, I would
like to know
Please don't apply the term "troll" to anyone else -- the irony is too
immense. If you kept your top-ten lists and reposted fanzine articles
out of rec.sport.tennis, I guarantee that no one here would track them
down elsewhere. But if you do post them here, don't complain when
people object or rebut.
Nice dodge attempt, when are you answeing my question?
Post by Joe Ramirez
The best music thread in RST in the last year was one in which you did
not participate (maybe there's a connection?). Forgive us, but it
wasn't limited to "bands":http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/thread/...
Also try this if you want to upgrade your listening:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/thread/...
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 16:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes. It happened to me too. For
many years Pink Floyd, Zep and Rush was my top 1-3 bands. When I
started reading abt genres, I discovered Floyd and Rush get frequently
classified as prog rock. When I went to seek out the "other inferior"
bands in the genre, I disovered Yes and also discovered Yes was way
better and original than Rush and also as good as Floyd if not better
than them. Nowadays I would rate Zep>Yes>Floyd, although the gap
between the three is very less.
AC
2007-10-06 19:48:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:50:21 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes. It happened to me too. For
many years Pink Floyd, Zep and Rush was my top 1-3 bands. When I
started reading abt genres, I discovered Floyd and Rush get frequently
classified as prog rock. When I went to seek out the "other inferior"
bands in the genre, I disovered Yes and also discovered Yes was way
better and original than Rush and also as good as Floyd if not better
than them. Nowadays I would rate Zep>Yes>Floyd, although the gap
between the three is very less.
And again, if he can learn how to play guitar as well as Lifeson or Gilmour,
the fact that he's never heard of Yes won't hurt him a bit.

They were an interesting band with some good music, but Floyd they were not.
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
lemmiwinks
2007-10-06 20:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:50:21 -0000,
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
Right. Raja, I have a teenage son who has teenage friends and owns a
teenager's iPod stuffed with rock (not music on the radio). I have a
niece and nephew who just left their teens. Where is Yes with these
listeners? Nowhere. My nephew is actually a big fan of classic rock
and spends a lot of time learning the guitar riffs -- but that means
Led Zep, AC/DC, Clapton, Hendrix, etc., not Yes. Your article actually
managed to get something right when it said, "few under-20s will now
even have heard of them."
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your teenage niece/nephews will eventually seek out more music from
the 70s and then they will DISCOVER Yes. It happened to me too. For
many years Pink Floyd, Zep and Rush was my top 1-3 bands. When I
started reading abt genres, I discovered Floyd and Rush get frequently
classified as prog rock. When I went to seek out the "other inferior"
bands in the genre, I disovered Yes and also discovered Yes was way
better and original than Rush and also as good as Floyd if not better
than them. Nowadays I would rate Zep>Yes>Floyd, although the gap
between the three is very less.
And again, if he can learn how to play guitar as well as Lifeson or Gilmour,
the fact that he's never heard of Yes won't hurt him a bit.
If the pinnacle of his guitar playing stops at Lifeson or Gilmore it would
be best if he not attempt Howe.
Post by AC
They were an interesting band with some good music, but Floyd they were not.
--
Aaron Clausen
Tony Elka
2007-10-06 17:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Yes is a big hit with teenagers these days. The ones that are willing
to discover new music not played on radio. There is a reason all the
current rock bands are all retro.
I saw what had to be a fourteen year old girl at Wal Mart wearing a Syd
Barrett t-shirt a couple of years ago.

Tony
poisoned rose
2007-10-06 19:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Elka
I saw what had to be a fourteen year old girl at Wal Mart wearing a Syd
Barrett t-shirt a couple of years ago.
Hot Topic has totally devalued the "status" of wearing a band
T-shirt. It used to mean, ooh, you saw the band's concert...now it
means you went to the mall.
Tony Elka
2007-10-06 20:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Tony Elka
I saw what had to be a fourteen year old girl at Wal Mart wearing a Syd
Barrett t-shirt a couple of years ago.
Hot Topic has totally devalued the "status" of wearing a band
T-shirt. It used to mean, ooh, you saw the band's concert...now it
means you went to the mall.
Wearing a band t-shirt never had any status. They could always be
purchased by mail order, I remember ads for them in magazines like the
old National Lampoon, for every major band, back in the 70's.

Tony
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 17:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Joe, no offense let me ask you one thing? What do you find exciting
about Radiohead that you dont find about Floyd/Yes?

Are you trying to be hip by saying Radiohead is cool? You call Floyd
lacking energy. I was listening to OK Computer today and it was such a
snooze. I have never heard a rock band rock this less! Then I put on
Kid A. I must say they did a great job of RIPPING OFF Kraftwerk's
album Radio-Activity. I personally prefer Kid A to Ok Computer,
because it has at least some more energy.

You call excellent live bands who could rock as much as any like Floyd/
Yes, effete/banal. But then you like snoozefests like Radohead. I see
a bit of hypocrisy in there. Do you like Radiohead because they call
themselves alternative rock (which is a cooler term than progressive
rock).... BWHAHAHAHA! By the way alternative rock is a shit term which
means nothing.

I would say The Verve were much better, rocked harder, and wrote much
more memorable stuff than Radiohead ever have. And they both made
music at the same time. Its just some snobs made a huge deal out of
Radiohead while ignoring better bands like The Verve.

Listen to me....

Radiohead is much more SELF INDULGENT and PRETENTIOUS than Floyd/Yes
ever were. At least they made music to entertain people while trying
some experimentation.
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 18:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Joe, no offense let me ask you one thing? What do you find exciting
about Radiohead that you dont find about Floyd/Yes?
I didn't bring up Radiohead in this thread, so I'm not sure why you
are addressing that band. Also, note that I have never in my life
started any kind of thread about Pink Floyd or Yes. But if you persist
in cross-posting your hagiographic musings on these groups, you have
to expect resistance.

Pink Floyd and Yes have essentially opposite problems. Pink Floyd has
brains, but no energy. That's why they are effete. Yes has some
energy, but no brains. That's why they are banal. Neither is
worthless, although I do not much care for either. If I had to choose
one to listen to, it would be Floyd because it at least can make good
background music.

Radiohead has both energy and brains. The music is intelligent,
diverse, melodic, provocative, lyrically interesting, and very sad at
times.
Post by S.F.BZY
Are you trying to be hip by saying Radiohead is cool?
Don't be silly. I have broad taste in music (classical, jazz,
bluegrass, all sorts of rock, ethnic & folk musics, etc.) and seek out
good stuff regardless of its public image. My tastes in rock have been
"hip" for decades only because music that is really good sometimes
does wind up getting acclaimed as such.

I have noticed that Radiohead is a band that musicians tend to like.
In that respect you are probably correct in part that they are aiming
for something beyond simply entertaining the public.
Post by S.F.BZY
You call Floyd
lacking energy. I was listening to OK Computer today and it was such a
snooze. I have never heard a rock band rock this less! Then I put on
Kid A. I must say they did a great job of RIPPING OFF Kraftwerk's
album Radio-Activity. I personally prefer Kid A to Ok Computer,
because it has at least some more energy.
Radiohead can rock very hard when they want to. "Paranoid Android" and
"Electioneering" on "OK Computer," most of "The Bends," much of "Hail
to the Thief," parts of "Kid A," etc. You are correct that much of "OK
Computer" is slow, but it's also extremely, ingeniously melodic.
"Subterranean Homesick Alien," for example, is an absolutely beautiful
track. The key difference between Floyd and Radiohead is that
Radiohead's experimental, non-rocking tracks are well-arranged,
interestingly textured, and highly melodic. Floyd's similar tracks may
also be well-arranged and interestingly textured, but they are quite
parched, melodically speaking.
Post by S.F.BZY
You call excellent live bands who could rock as much as any like Floyd/
Yes, effete/banal. But then you like snoozefests like Radohead. I see
a bit of hypocrisy in there. Do you like Radiohead because they call
themselves alternative rock (which is a cooler term than progressive
rock).... BWHAHAHAHA! By the way alternative rock is a shit term which
means nothing.
You have the perspective of someone who is entranced by labels. Why
would I care about a manufactured subgenre name? I was listening to
music in the "alternative" evolutionary tree before the term
"alternative rock" was invented, so the name can't influence me one
way or the other.
Post by S.F.BZY
I would say The Verve were much better, rocked harder, and wrote much
more memorable stuff than Radiohead ever have. And they both made
music at the same time. Its just some snobs made a huge deal out of
Radiohead while ignoring better bands like The Verve.
As a prisoner of the 70s, you have previously established that your
taste becomes less reliable the further you get from that decade. The
Verve?? Pleasant enough, but essentially a footnote band.

Anyway, to return this thread to its original topic, the fact that you
don't like Radiohead obviously does not help to prove that today's
teenagers are becoming Yes fans. :)

Joe Ramirez
S.F.BZY
2007-10-06 21:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Joe, no offense let me ask you one thing? What do you find exciting
about Radiohead that you dont find about Floyd/Yes?
I didn't bring up Radiohead in this thread, so I'm not sure why you
are addressing that band. Also, note that I have never in my life
started any kind of thread about Pink Floyd or Yes. But if you persist
in cross-posting your hagiographic musings on these groups, you have
to expect resistance.
Pink Floyd and Yes have essentially opposite problems. Pink Floyd has
brains, but no energy. That's why they are effete. Yes has some
energy, but no brains. That's why they are banal. Neither is
worthless, although I do not much care for either. If I had to choose
one to listen to, it would be Floyd because it at least can make good
background music.
Yes' music is very intelligent and so is Floyd. I dont think there is
any use to talking to you, since you havent heard these bands at all.
You seem to be a dude who listens/judges music based on the image it
has. So Yes/Floyd are classified as prog they must not make very
intelligent music? LOL
Post by Joe Ramirez
Radiohead has both energy and brains.
BWAAHAHAHA. I can feel Radiohead's overflowing energy on their
albums...LOL
\
Post by Joe Ramirez
The music is intelligent,
diverse, melodic, provocative, lyrically interesting, and very sad at
times.
Post by S.F.BZY
Are you trying to be hip by saying Radiohead is cool?
Don't be silly. I have broad taste in music (classical, jazz,
bluegrass, all sorts of rock, ethnic & folk musics, etc.) and seek out
good stuff regardless of its public image. My tastes in rock have been
"hip" for decades only because music that is really good sometimes
does wind up getting acclaimed as such.
I have noticed that Radiohead is a band that musicians tend to like.
In that respect you are probably correct in part that they are aiming
for something beyond simply entertaining the public.
Post by S.F.BZY
You call Floyd
lacking energy. I was listening to OK Computer today and it was such a
snooze. I have never heard a rock band rock this less! Then I put on
Kid A. I must say they did a great job of RIPPING OFF Kraftwerk's
album Radio-Activity. I personally prefer Kid A to Ok Computer,
because it has at least some more energy.
Radiohead can rock very hard when they want to. "Paranoid Android" and
"Electioneering" on "OK Computer," most of "The Bends," much of "Hail
to the Thief," parts of "Kid A," etc. You are correct that much of "OK
Computer" is slow, but it's also extremely, ingeniously melodic.
"Subterranean Homesick Alien," for example, is an absolutely beautiful
track. The key difference between Floyd and Radiohead is that
Radiohead's experimental, non-rocking tracks are well-arranged,
interestingly textured, and highly melodic. Floyd's similar tracks may
also be well-arranged and interestingly textured, but they are quite
parched, melodically speaking.
Post by S.F.BZY
You call excellent live bands who could rock as much as any like Floyd/
Yes, effete/banal. But then you like snoozefests like Radohead. I see
a bit of hypocrisy in there. Do you like Radiohead because they call
themselves alternative rock (which is a cooler term than progressive
rock).... BWHAHAHAHA! By the way alternative rock is a shit term which
means nothing.
You have the perspective of someone who is entranced by labels. Why
would I care about a manufactured subgenre name? I was listening to
music in the "alternative" evolutionary tree before the term
"alternative rock" was invented, so the name can't influence me one
way or the other.
Post by S.F.BZY
I would say The Verve were much better, rocked harder, and wrote much
more memorable stuff than Radiohead ever have. And they both made
music at the same time. Its just some snobs made a huge deal out of
Radiohead while ignoring better bands like The Verve.
As a prisoner of the 70s, you have previously established that your
taste becomes less reliable the further you get from that decade. The
Verve?? Pleasant enough, but essentially a footnote band.
Anyway, to return this thread to its original topic, the fact that you
don't like Radiohead obviously does not help to prove that today's
teenagers are becoming Yes fans. :)
Joe Ramirez- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe Ramirez
2007-10-06 21:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
Post by Joe Ramirez
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big
Big what?
Post by S.F.BZY
for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
Both omissions deserved.
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
This paragraph is laced with ludicrously amateurish fanboy analysis.
"Few" teens have even heard of Yes, but "many" are willing to listen
to them? Embarrassing contradiction. Kids in the 21st century are
"incredulous" that a geezer band from the 70s has no presence today?
Laughable. And what is the basis for all these breathless
generalizations? Did the author commission a survey of young people's
attitudes toward Yes?
Joe Ramirez
Joe, no offense let me ask you one thing? What do you find exciting
about Radiohead that you dont find about Floyd/Yes?
I didn't bring up Radiohead in this thread, so I'm not sure why you
are addressing that band. Also, note that I have never in my life
started any kind of thread about Pink Floyd or Yes. But if you persist
in cross-posting your hagiographic musings on these groups, you have
to expect resistance.
Pink Floyd and Yes have essentially opposite problems. Pink Floyd has
brains, but no energy. That's why they are effete. Yes has some
energy, but no brains. That's why they are banal. Neither is
worthless, although I do not much care for either. If I had to choose
one to listen to, it would be Floyd because it at least can make good
background music.
Yes' music is very intelligent and so is Floyd. I dont think there is
any use to talking to you, since you havent heard these bands at all.
You seem to be a dude who listens/judges music based on the image it
has. So Yes/Floyd are classified as prog they must not make very
intelligent music? LOL
I hope you realize that every dumb post you add to your collection
vindicates Jaros's assessment of you. It must make you happy to be
shoring up his arguments. :) Anyway:
1. Can't you read? I did not say Pink Floyd was unintelligent. I said
they had brains. Don't mislead by using ambiguous "Yes/Floyd"
references.
2. I don't care how these artists are "classified." I did not use the
words "prog" or "progressive" in any previous messages in this thread.
That's your own bullshit smeared across your screen, not mine.

Joe Ramirez
Barrabas
2007-10-06 01:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
I remember the 70s but I don't recall Yes at all. I have never had
the impression of them as any kind of major band. Maybe only big in New
York in 1976.
poisoned rose
2007-10-06 02:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barrabas
I remember the 70s but I don't recall Yes at all. I have never had
the impression of them as any kind of major band. Maybe only big in New
York in 1976.
Yes was certainly a major band. Worldwide popularity, headlining
arenas, top-10 albums, platinum discs, several prominent FM-radio
songs (mainly from the Yes Album/Fragile/Close to the Edge trio).
And that memorable Yes logo was everywhere. T-shirts, posters,
classroom doodles....

Major band. Though not as major as *Raja* thinks.
abe slaney
2007-10-06 03:28:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Barrabas
I remember the 70s but I don't recall Yes at all. I have never had
the impression of them as any kind of major band. Maybe only big in New
York in 1976.
Yes was certainly a major band. Worldwide popularity, headlining
arenas, top-10 albums, platinum discs, several prominent FM-radio
songs (mainly from the Yes Album/Fragile/Close to the Edge trio).
And that memorable Yes logo was everywhere. T-shirts, posters,
classroom doodles....
Major band. Though not as major as *Raja* thinks.
I had friends who loved them, more in fact than shared interest in the
bands I liked, but I always preferred Genesis, Tull, King Crimson,
Gentle Giant. Yes' music always sounded cold to me; busy for the sake of
being busy. I just never found the emotion in it.

But they had great album cover art!
poisoned rose
2007-10-06 03:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by abe slaney
I had friends who loved them, more in fact than shared interest in the
bands I liked, but I always preferred Genesis, Tull, King Crimson,
Gentle Giant. Yes' music always sounded cold to me; busy for the sake of
being busy. I just never found the emotion in it.
But they had great album cover art!
For ages, I never really knew anything about Gentle Giant beyond
knowing they were prog and being able to picture some of their album
covers. I had lots of other prog records, but Gentle Giant never,
ever got played on radio and none of my friends had their albums
either. And I was timid about making a "blind purchase." So, that
was that.

Then in the mp3/soundclip age, I investigated them more. Really did
not like anything I heard. Overly fussy, overly fruity. I enjoy the
madrigal feel of Jethro Tull, but somehow it leaves me cold with
Gentle Giant. They don't have the saving grace of Tull's bluesy edge.

I could tell an almost identical story for Raja's beloved Van der
Graaf Generator. I'll take a pass on them too.
abe slaney
2007-10-06 06:03:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by abe slaney
I had friends who loved them, more in fact than shared interest in the
bands I liked, but I always preferred Genesis, Tull, King Crimson,
Gentle Giant. Yes' music always sounded cold to me; busy for the sake of
being busy. I just never found the emotion in it.
But they had great album cover art!
For ages, I never really knew anything about Gentle Giant beyond
knowing they were prog and being able to picture some of their album
covers. I had lots of other prog records, but Gentle Giant never,
ever got played on radio and none of my friends had their albums
either. And I was timid about making a "blind purchase." So, that
was that.
Then in the mp3/soundclip age, I investigated them more. Really did
not like anything I heard. Overly fussy, overly fruity. I enjoy the
madrigal feel of Jethro Tull, but somehow it leaves me cold with
Gentle Giant. They don't have the saving grace of Tull's bluesy edge.
I could tell an almost identical story for Raja's beloved Van der
Graaf Generator. I'll take a pass on them too.
I know what you mean. I'm just a sucker for medieval fair fare. So I can
listen to about 3 tracks and I'm ready for Neil Young!
Mackenzie
2007-10-06 04:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
Bill Bruford was replaced by Alan White, a former drummer for John
Lennon, bringing a more rocky, less jazzy approach to the instrument.
It's funny that the two drummer were known for there jazz approaches
to the instrument while adding wit and nuance to their playing as well
as polyrhythms. Bruford left a legacy while White filled his shoes.
LennonFan
2007-10-06 23:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Jeff Blanks
2007-10-07 07:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Thanks. (But there's no need to post the article here if it's there,
knowhutimean?)
Post by S.F.BZY
...few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it...
Joe Ramirez: I see no contradiction here. Teenagers don't know of
them, but when they hear them, many really like them. Not so hard to
grasp.
Post by S.F.BZY
The great thing about Rabin, though, was his energy and drive. It was
he who kept the band in existence and present fans have him to thank
for this.
Eh?? How did Rabin "keep the band in existence"? Maybe the overall
effort did, but that was obviously driven by Squire, so I guess we
should be thanking him. "OOALH" was certainly nice, but I still say
*90125* didn't *need* it to be a commercial success. Apparently Ahmet
Ertegun didn't realize just how many people there were out here who
still wanted a Yes fix.
Ferd Farkel
2007-10-07 17:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
Nothing much anywhere about Steve Howe's earlier band, Bodast.
Very surprising, since "Nether Street" is the genesis of Yes'
signature riff from "Wurm," from "Starship Trooper" (chords
D Bb G).

Always wondered if the Butthole Surfers didn't rip that one off
and turn it into the overture from "Sweat Loaf."
Dave The Rave
2007-10-07 22:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferd Farkel
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
Nothing much anywhere about Steve Howe's earlier band, Bodast.
Very surprising, since "Nether Street" is the genesis of Yes'
signature riff from "Wurm," from "Starship Trooper" (chords
D Bb G).
Always wondered if the Butthole Surfers didn't rip that one off
and turn it into the overture from "Sweat Loaf."- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Howe was also in the band Tomorrow (British hit "My White Bicycle".)
They did a very respectable "Strawberry Fields Forever".

Dave The Rave
poisoned rose
2007-10-08 23:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave The Rave
Howe was also in the band Tomorrow (British hit "My White Bicycle".)
They did a very respectable "Strawberry Fields Forever".
I thought it was terrible.
S.F.BZY
2007-10-11 02:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Dave The Rave
Howe was also in the band Tomorrow (British hit "My White Bicycle".)
They did a very respectable "Strawberry Fields Forever".
I thought it was terrible.
No offense, I think even the original was terrible and is hands down
the worst song on Magical Mystery Tour.
Caffe Mocha
2007-10-08 17:02:43 UTC
Permalink
T***@frontiernet.net
2007-10-08 21:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by S.F.BZY
An interesting article on Yes, I found on the Internet. This makes a
big for Yes being one of the greatest rock band of all time.
Unfortunately, they are not yet in Rock N Roll HOF and didnt even make
the top 100 VH1 rock n roll list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A959952
Yes are a rock band with a strange and interesting history. Back in
the 1970s, they were among the most popular, best-loved and biggest-
selling bands on the planet. In 1976, they packed out the JFK stadium
with over 110,000 enthusiastic fans, just about the largest concert
attendance ever at that time.
Today they enjoy only limited media exposure; you will seldom hear
them on radio or see them discussed by critics and few under-20s will
now even have heard of them. And yet, many teenagers of 2003 are found
to be open and willing to listen to this band. Given the opportunity,
they hear the music with fresh ears and are amazed at it; indeed they
are frequently incredulous at Yes's lack of presence on the music
scene.
So what accounts for today's lack of market profile?
First, they have never been mainstream pop or dance - nor are they a
'singles' band. This is album music to be listened to and enjoyed for
its own sake. And like all good music, it needs more than one hearing
to be fully appreciated. Those who give it time will be richly
rewarded.
Also, they are not natural 'celebrities'. These are professional
musicians first and seldom attract publicity for their own actions.
They are not 'hotel wreckers'.
A brief fall in their fortunes, back in the late 1970s, was due to the
advent of punk, with its emphasis on simple, direct music and blunt
aggression. The music press naturally jumped on the bandwagon and
anything that didn't fit in with the New Wave was peremptorily
'dropped' overnight. The trend then was towards three-chord songs,
with keyboards used less often. At that time Yes were probably the
best-known exponents of more involved and interesting musical forms.
Some of their output certainly approaches classical music in grandeur,
scale, invention and sheer musical ability. Their lyrics are positive,
poetic, full of hope. In contrast, the punk movement embraced street
language, anger and often a sense of despair.
This hurdle overcome, they later rose to the top again, briefly, with
their massive 90125 album and the single 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'.
Unfortunately, subsequent line-up changes and managerial difficulties
resulted in a couple of weaker albums and, again, a loss of market
profile.
These days it is difficult to say how popular Yes are, without access
to their global sales figures. There is certainly a massive global
following. At the time of writing, Yes are still together, still
working hard and playing to packed houses around the world; their fans
are loyal. The latest albums The Ladder and Magnification (2001) are
real quality, full of vibrant, fresh material.
A Brief History
The band formed around 1968, with the meeting of Jon Anderson (vocals)
and Chris Squire (bass). The first line-up included Peter Banks
(guitar), Tony Kaye (keyboard) and Bill Bruford (drums).
The first two albums were Yes and Time and a Word. These are
interesting collectors items for the established fan, but are
certainly products of their era and sound a little dated now. Later
albums have a timeless quality.
Two significant changes then occurred: firstly, the arrival of a new
producer, Eddie Offord. He was to remain with the band for several
years and would bring great continuity and invention to their sound.
The second change was the departure of Banks and arrival of Steve Howe
on guitar. Howe was to become the most widely respected rock guitarist
of his time. Unlike other contenders, such as Jimmy Page of Led
Zeppelin, Howe was happy to move outside blues and rock scales into
classical and jazz modes.
The 'Classic' Period
There was a certain amount of record company pressure for the next
album to be successful; it was make-or-break time for the band. The
Yes Album turned out to be a masterpiece - the breakthrough had come.
It contained six tracks, five of which are still played regularly on
tours, and it became almost a one-record greatest hits collection.
Keyboards on the next album, Fragile, were taken over by Rick Wakeman.
Quite apart from his general flamboyance (and golden cape) he brought
even more musicality to the band, with his classical training and rock
experience. He was a pioneer of synthesizer technology, always at the
forefront of developments1. To achieve the sounds he wanted, he would
tour with banks of keyboards that he played simultaneously. He also
brought his own playful sense of humour to the shows.
Jon Anderson has always been a dynamic and strong leader for the group
in terms of musical direction. Lyrically, he began to explore more
mystical and spiritual themes, creating word-pictures with sometimes
profound imagery: a new language that he brought to a huge public. Yes
were extremely popular at this time - their concerts invariably sold
out.
The fifth album, Close to the Edge, was a truly massive hit worldwide.
It established the group as leaders in their art, with an inspired
title track. This was 18 minutes long, a fact in itself challenging
for many who wanted to categorise Yes as a pop/rock group. It featured
four sections, the first a wonderfully crafted rock/jazz intro,
leading into powerful melodies, a beautifully harmonised third 'slow'
movement and a final climactic return to the 'Close to the Edge'
theme, with truly spine-tingling effect.
All this was guaranteed to win many, many fans, but also baffle others
who were more addicted to the three-minute pop song and the epidemic
of soul/disco sweeping the world at that time.
Bill Bruford was replaced by Alan White, a former drummer for John
Lennon, bringing a more rocky, less jazzy approach to the instrument.
Tales from Topographic Oceans was the sixth album, a double, and it
went to No 1 in the album charts despite marketing and release
difficulties. This was probably their most challenging album: four
pieces in excess of 20 minute each, featuring various musical styles.
By now though, the band had their own distinctive sound and this was
unlike anything else on the market. It alienated some critics, who
considered it a step too far outside their strict categories of 'rock
'n' roll', disco, etc. With hindsight, the band were steering their
own course and it was brave and original. Those who gave the album a
fair hearing are generally still passionate about it to this day, but
it needed listening to, just as a Sibelius symphony does: it makes
demands of the listener, but the reward is great.
Album number seven was Relayer. This was what many consider to be
their greatest-ever recording. It beautifully tackles the great themes
of war, peace, love and hate. Again, like much that is profound, it
needs more than one listening to appreciate its genius. Patrick Moraz
replaced Wakeman on keyboards for this one album and brought a fast
playing jazz-fusion feel to the overall rock sound. Yes were riding
high and it was 1976, the year of their great stadium concerts.
The Punk Era
The 'New Wave' hit hard in 1977, but the next album, the superb Going
for the One, flew in the face of the movement and confounded the
critics. It reached No 1 in the album charts. However, Yes had
officially become the 'Old Wave' and the music press began
systematically to write them off; or rather not write about them at
all. The tragedy of this was not that it badly affected the band, but
that future audiences were denied even the opportunity to hear about
Yes, other than by word of mouth.
The band were shaken and probably hurt by the wave of criticism, and
the ninth album, Tormato, sounded musically changed, unsure of itself.
The final mixdown sounded surprisingly hurried and even the album
sleeve betrayed a lack of self-belief within the band, the planned
cover-photo splattered in tomatoes. Be that as it may, the record
still contained some great ideas and was followed by a hugely
successful and innovative tour 'in the round' ie, on a revolving
stage.
Dramatics
At some point during this 1978 tour, Anderson and Wakeman decided to
call it a day. Things were just not gelling within the band.
Controversially, they were replaced by former Buggles members, Trevor
Horn (vocals) and Geoff Downes (keyboards). This appeared strange at
the time, as Buggles had presented a distinctly 'pop' sound - it
seemed that neither Yes fans nor Buggles fans were happy with the new
plans.
However, the next album, Drama, put paid to many of their fears. This
was tight, clever music. The keyboards were solidly played, without a
foreground presence, but certainly held their own. The vocals were
performed satisfactorily and suited the songs. However, it was a
different sound, and the loss of Anderson meant the loss of some
ethereal, enigmatic quality - spirituality, if you will. It was the
difference between a mountain-top experience, and simply a hike over a
mountain. Oddly enough though, these feelings perfectly suited the
material; 'Machine Messiah', for instance, seemed to speak of a
mechanistic, soulless universe. Drama remains a popular album because
the band were true to themselves, and the material has freshness after
the change in personnel.
The subsequent tour was successful but proved difficult for Trevor
Horn, as his voice was severely challenged by the older material.
After the tour, the band split; apparently Yes had finished.
Wakeman undertook various solo projects, Howe formed Asia and Trevor
Horn now settled into his future successful role as producer. Jon
Anderson meanwhile, teamed up with Greek synthesizer wizard, Vangelis,
and enjoyed great success (and hit singles) as Jon and Vangelis.
Squire, White, former keyboard man Tony Kaye, and South African
guitarist Trevor Rabin teamed up to form a proposed new band, Cinema.
However, with much of an album already recorded, Jon ...
read more »
Just to clarify ... are you still "not really back" yet?
He's here because he's not all there.
Caffe Mocha
2007-10-08 17:52:49 UTC
Permalink
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